Great Book: The Comets of God

Excerpts

I have a huge library of catastrophist books, both printed and now electronic. They range from horribly kooky and shallow to books that have millions of copies in their future. Dr. Jeffrey Goodman’s The Comets of God is closer to the latter. It will be read and re-read, particularly by Christians, and remembered as the best resolution of modern comet science and biblical text since Newton’s protege Whiston.

Any catastrophist worth his salt could tick off at least a few bible passages that seem to reflect his scientific understandings, if not his spiritual belief. But Goodman, clearly a bible text genius and Christian, has identified hundreds upon hundreds. The more I read the more it impressed me: Goodman, by applying the very latest science to his brilliant understanding of the Good Book, was interpreting the Bible more accurately than ever before. 

 

 Thou, even thou, art Lord alone; thou has made heaven (the solar system), the heaven of heavens (the Oort Cloud), with all their host (comets), the Earth, and all things that are therein … Job 38:22-23 NIV says, Have you entered into the storehouses of the snow? Or seen the storehouses of the hail (the Oort Cloud), which I reserve fr times of trouble, for the days of war and battle? Isaiah 13:3-5 says,  I have commanded my sanctified ones (comets), I have also called my mighty ones (comets) for mine anger … the Lord of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. They came from a far (place), from the end of heaven (the Oort Cloud), even the Lord and the weapons of his indignation (‘wrath’ in NIV) to destroy the whole land.

Nehemiah 9:6 

The Bible repeatedly refers to a reservoir or cloud of icy comets at the outer edge of the solar system. The above verses are just a few that do so. However, few people have understood the meaning of these verses. Job 38:22-23 (NIV) calls the cometary reservoir at the end of heaven “the storehouse of the snow” or the “storehouse of the hail” (astronomers sometimes refer to comets as “dirty snowballs”), where “snow” and “hail” refer to the comets’ cradle that holds them in “reserve for times of trouble; for days of war and battle.” This “storehouse” or reservoir is an important part of the greater solar system that astronomers did not discover until 1948-50.* This reservoir or cloud of comets begins at the edge of the solar system, and extending out about one-third the distance to the nearest star. Astronomers call this reservoir or “storehouse” the Oort Cloud.

Goodman, Jeffrey (2010-11-11). THE COMETS OF GOD- New Scientific Evidence for God: Recent archeological, geological and astronomical discoveries that shine new light on the Bible and its prophecies (pp. 423-424). Archeological Research Books, LLC. Kindle Edition. 

Psalm 103:20-21, 104:4, and 148:8 also tell how the God of the Bible controls comets, and uses them as His “messengers” and “ministers.” Referring to comets as “messengers” was a common practice in the ancient Near East. (Psalm 103:20-21)

“Bless the Lord, ye his messengers (#4397 maw-lak – comets), that excel in strength (‘mighty ones’ in NIV – which relates to the ‘mighty ones’ of Isaiah 13:3-7 who come from the ‘end of heaven to destroy the whole land’), that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word, Bless ye the Lord, all ye his hosts (including comets), ye ministers of his that do his pleasure (‘his will’ – NIV)…. (Psalm 104:4) Who maketh his messengers (#4397 maw-lak – comets) tempests (#7307 ruwach – cometary); his ministers a flaming fire (cometary)…. (Psalm 148:8) Fire and hail, snow and vapours, stormy wind (all cometary) fulfilling his word (‘do his bidding’ – NIV or ‘execute His commands – Tanakh).

Psalm 103:20-21,104:4, and 148:8*

Goodman, Jeffrey (2010-11-11). THE COMETS OF GOD- New Scientific Evidence for God: Recent archeological, geological and astronomical discoveries that shine new light on the Bible and its prophecies (p. 88). Archeological Research Books, LLC. Kindle Edition.

Then the Earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. And He rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind. He made darkness his secret place … At the brightness that was before Him, His thick (cometary) cloud passed hail stones and coals of fire. The Lord also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave His voice: hail stones and coals of fire. Yea He sent out His arrows, and scattered them; and He shot out lightnings (‘to flash forth’-meteorites) and discomfited them. Then the channels of the waters (seabeds) were seen (tsunami withdrawl) and the foundations of the world were discovered (exposed by deep craters) at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breadth of thy nostrils

II Samuel 22:8-16 (Psalm 18:7-15)

There can be little doubt that the catastrophes of the Bible and the catastrophes prophesied to come involve the God of the Bible, the Lord of Hosts, the Lord of Comets, using comets as His “mighty warriors” (Isaiah 13:3 NAS) and the “weapons of His wrath” (Isaiah 13:5 NIV) to “worketh signs and wonders in heaven and in Earth” (Daniel 6:27). In a sense Psalm 11:6 NAS sums up the God of the Bible’s use of cometary material to punish the wicked when it says, “Upon the wicked He will rain coals of fire; Fire and brimstone and burning wind will be the portion of their cup.”

Goodman, Jeffrey (2010-11-11). THE COMETS OF GOD- New Scientific Evidence for God: Recent archeological, geological and astronomical discoveries that shine new light on the Bible and its prophecies (pp. 91-92). Archeological Research Books, LLC. Kindle Edition.

 

 

  • E.P. Grondine

    The author does mention the following incidend in his passage explaining why Russia is not Magog (which view will come as good news for Orthodox Christians considerin what happened earlier):

    At a dinner with California legislators in 1971 (before he became president), prophecy student Ronald Reagan concisely summed up his view of Russia’s end time role:

    “Ezekiel tells us that Gog, [referring to Magog], the nation that will lead all of the other powers of darkness against Israel, will come out of the north. Biblical scholars have been saying for generations that Gog must be Russia. What other powerful nation is to the north of Israel? None. But it didn’t seem to make sense before the Russian revolution, when Russia was a Christian country. Now it does, now that Russia has become communistic and atheistic, now that Russia has set itself against God. Now it fits the description of Gog perfectly.” 13

    Kind of scary, isn’t it?

    Why some “christians” continue to expect the detruction of Israel is beyond me, except that it is the same mind set that led the Holocaust.
    Apparently in their view it is now Turkey instead of Russia who will be responsible.

  • Steve Garcia

    Ed: “George posted the document, and I noted it right here at the Tusk.

    But my comment got drowned out by the usual nonsense.

    So all you’ll have to do is find that post.”

    Believe it or not, that doesn’t help one iota. “Here at the Tusk” means it can be anywhere. I assume the original sources are outside the Tusk somewhere.

  • Steve Garcia

    Joachim –

    My email is SteveG1309@gmail.com.

  • Steve Garcia

    Terry –

    My thanks for both of us being civil about this disagreement we have. If I seem to attack, it is not meant, but to be a skeptic and devil’s advocate, as in any debate.

    You say, “I submit that the calendar isn’t a settled scientific fact.” I won’t argue that myself. However, I don’t think the scientific calendar is off by as much as young-earthers need it to be. I would suspect its error to be less than +/-75% at the outside (on things as recent as the YDB).

    C14, though based on the physics of radioactive decay, originally was also compared against more historical datings, such as ceramics, architectural, stone point, and language styles styles, which were the backbone of archaeological dating before 1950. The original straight line decay assumption hardly had the ink dry before it was being revised (originally due to the effect of nuclear testing in the 1950s, a I understand it).

    In fact, it is always being revised. I think the current standard calibration curve dates to 2009, which replaced the one from 2005.

    But that is all small tweaks. Like you, I expect at some point someone is going to find a fairly large correction in C14 calibration curves at some point. Why do I think that? Because, like you, I have a favored idea in my head that I want to be correct. Mine is the dating of Atlantis. I think there was an Atlantis-like global civilization. I also think that Plato got the date of its destruction more or less correct. But right now the YDB’s 12.9 kya is off a little bit from Plato’s 11,500 kya. I arrive at that by assuming Plato at 500 BC, then adding 2500 years to his 9,000 years.

    That doesn’t mean that the C14 curve is actually going to be shown to be off by about 15%. But our understanding of many things in the past have come to pass that were not expected. One example would be the Monte Verde site in Chile overthrowing archaeology’s Clovis Barrier, which had stood like a rock for about 70 years.

    Another would be the Solutrean-Clovis point connection, that is being more and more in the news. When the Clovis Barrier existed, it prevented the time gap between Solutrean points in Europe and Clovis points in the USA from being reduced. Since the barrier has fallen, 16 years ago now, the gap has closed up, and there now seems to be an overlap in time – making their connection much more possible. I am certain the connection will be an accepted fact within a few more years.

    Another is the erosion on the sides of the Sphynx enclosure at Giza. Its erosion has been shown to be water rather than wind erosion. But that creates a conundrum, which argues that either the area was rainy in much more recent times than currently thought, or the Sphynx (and thus the Giza complex) is thousands of years older than previously thought. If older by erosion’s evidence, then there comes the problem of the C14 dates. As of now, all of this is unresolved. Ultra-conservative archaeology, of course, pronounces that the erosion is simply wind erosion and the assessments of it being water erosion are totally wrong. But that is only one side of the argument. But for me the main issue is that thre IS evidence that the Giza complex is at least 5,000 BC (when rain was plentiful enough to possibly cause erosion there). But erosion takes time, so the beginning of the erosion was earlier than the 5,000 BC date. How much earlier? Who knows? But it also begins to breach the time gap between Plato’s account of Egypt’s priests claiming Egypt was around in 9,500 BC.

    So, I keep seeing non-connections – in time, in particular – growing into or toward connections, more and more.

    As a disclaimer, I don’t care what the name of a totally old higher-tech civilization was. I don’t insist on it being named Atlantis. If the Egyptian site at Giza is quite a bit older than 5,000 BC, though, it throws a monkey wrench in the dating schemes of other sites that have similar technically advanced working and maneuvering of stones, such as Baalbek, Ollyantaytambo, Malta, and Sacsayhuaman. C14 is the foundation of the dating of those sites. What happens when geological evidence disputes C14? Which trumps which? Or are both wrong to some extent? And to what extent? The physics of geology is no less rooted solidly, compared to C14, yet if they don’t agree, what happens then?

    C14 dating certainly is based on an assumption: That we know, absolutely, the rate of decay of Carbon14. Assumptions in the history of science have a habit of needing correction. In fact, the currently used basic C14 half-life rate is somewhat different from Libby’s original value.

    And Firestone was looking into C14 decay “problems” when he stumbled upon the YDB hypothesis.

    So, the C14 Calendar” is subject to change. I need it to change much less than young earthers do.

    However, as we all know, C14 is only good back so far – about 50,000 years or so. Beyond that the geologists and arkies use several other decay-based measuring sticks. Those are even bigger problems for the young earthers, because unless those are off by magnitudes upon magnitudes, the older evidence will never give dates in the <7,000 year range. I am only asking for 15% change in the calendar; you all are looking for 98% reduction or so. That is a tall order.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Steve –

    Actually, the most reliable dating before 14C was ancient astronomical texts. With the arrival of 14C, the need for those text skills declined markedly.

    There are probably about 14 people in the world who actually are expert in reading ancient astronomical texts, including those from Egypt, and I can pretty well assure you that none of the finge authors are among them, no matter what they claim.

    Plato’s creation of his story of Atlantis, and his sources, is covered in “Man and Impact in the Americas”. My date for the HSIE was off in it, due to the same 14C dating problems that led Firestone to his work.

    Eadch copy now has a correction sheet pasted inside the front cover.

  • Steve Garcia

    Ed: “…since the Caroina Bays were used by early man with a Clovis toolkit, they predate the Holocene Start Impact Event, which occurred ca. 10,850 BCE.”

    This brings up an interesting point, often overlooked or left out of the discussion completely.

    The Clovis story always includes Beringia and the “Ice-free corridor” – both far to the northwest. Somehow I only just recently became aware that the great majority of Clovis sites are in the eastern U.S. This suggests that Clovis technology came from other than across Beringia. It also has LONG been known that NO Clovis technology whatsoever has ever been found in NE Siberia, confounding assertions that that was the route by which Clovis technology came to the Americas.

    The recent (last two years) finds of Clovis points in the area of the Delmarva peninsula that were dated to about 20,000-22,000 years ago closed up the time gap between Solutrean and Clovis technologies that had existed in the minds of archaeologists for several decades.

    This possible route for the technology – direct from Europe to the U.S. – makes the density of Clovis sites in the eastern U.S. make sense. It also makes the orginal discovery near Clovis, NM itself an outlier.

    The CBs are in the middle of one of the denser areas of Clovis tech.

    The Clovis First people are still clinging to their paradigm, against mounting evidence. They are also being rigidly skeptical about many discoveries and the new connections being asserted – evidently either throwing a hissy fit or just trying to slow down progress. It is easy to liken them to buggy whip manufacturers in the early 20th century.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Steve –

    Clovis technology appears in South America very early on.

    It is likely to be indigenously developed there, based on European lithic technology that arrived in South America via West Africa around 35,000 BCE.

    After crossing the Gulf of Mexico, it rapidly spreads along annual game migration routes of around 300-500 miles length.

  • E.P. Grondine

    CL –

    “you got to know I was into that at 12…
    I was just trying to get to school on the bus without throwing up.. and to my classes without getting beat up or felt up.”

    I am sorry to hear of your bad experience. They go a long way towards explaining your behaviors.

    As no one here was among those who beat you up or felt you up, perhaps you might want to re-consider wishing that we would all go to hell.

  • chris trigger

    I’ve just finished reading The Comets of God by Jeffery Goodman, which is brilliantly argued, and I think he’s right. However, there were or two
    puzzling aspects to his theory. Firstly, however did the Bible writers come
    into possession of this knowledge? Surely it implies the previous existence of
    a scientifically advanced culture, whose scientific knowledge was as great as our own. He also implies that God is using comets to teach human beings a lesson, but surely there is no connection between cometary bombardment and
    the acts of human beings other than that produced serendipitously. Also, his
    argument depends upon the existence of the Oort Cloud and the dark star,
    both of whose existence is only hypothetical as far as I am aware. What we call comets,the Bible calls God.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Chris –

    “Firstly, however did the Bible writers come
    into possession of this knowledge? Surely it implies the previous existence of
    a scientifically advanced culture, whose scientific knowledge was as great as our own.”

    Wrong. It implies people got hit by comets, and they could watch them coming in. And those peoples records are where the compilers of the Bible got their material from.

    “He also implies that God is using comets to teach human beings a lesson, but surely there is no connection between cometary bombardment and
    the acts of human beings other than that produced serendipitously.”

    Generally, the survivors always attributed some evil to their neighbors which caused them to get hit. We happen to come from a Judeo-Christian background. Other peoples do not.

    “Also, his argument depends upon the existence of the Oort Cloud and the dark star, both of whose existence is only hypothetical as far as I am aware.”

    I have not read his book yet. Thanks to the WISE survey, we now know that NO nearby Dark Star exists. NASA looked everywhere, and did not seee it.

    As far as the Oort Cloud goes, the oribts of long period comets have been calculated, and it exists.

    “What we call comets, the Bible calls God.”

    Other people have had and currently have a very different view.

  • Steve Garcia

    “What we call comets, the Bible calls God.”

    What the Bible calls God is his interpretation.

    Wherever the author “interprets” anything AT ALL, if you take them one by one, each item can be interpreted as a LOT of things. Just because someone strings a bunch of interpretations together means only that he made a list of X = Y and then went through and plugged the interpetations.

    Biblical interpretations are like you-know-whats: everyone has one.

  • Steve Garcia

    Oh, last bit I left out:

    As far as biblical interpretations go, the ones with the idea that they have read the mind of God actually go out and publish. It’s called hubris, ego, megalomania, etc.

    Or they go out and start one more church spin-off. And some poor souls will follow them. It’s been going on for longer than the USA has existed.

  • Steve G –

    Church spin-off… like…
    wikified cut paste from
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group)

    Heaven’s Gate (religious group)
    Heaven’s Gate was an American UFO religion doomsday cult based in San Diego, California, founded in the early 1970s and led by Marshall Applewhite (1931–1997) and Bonnie Nettles (1927–1985).[1] On March 26, 1997, police discovered the bodies of 39 members of the group who had committed mass suicide[2] in order to reach what they believed was an alien space craft following the Comet Hale–Bopp, which was at its brightest.

    (and they all had the same brand of shoes – just an observation…)

    Chicken Little – FYI the idea behind addressing the threat of Earth crossing bolides is to try to divert the objects from hitting Earth AT ALL, not to choose between impact sites. It seems from your post you may have been unaware of that idea. It doesn’t have to be some kind of Heaven’s Gate scenario, or some kind of choice of where to aim the dooms day vector.

    DOOMSDAY NOT REQUIRED

    1) First you find the object and determine its orbit very carefully. This stage is tricky since all astronomical observations are subject to some degree of error, no matter how small that error must be. Such error may be interpreted by some as God’s impenetrable veil, but its really just the laws of physics. All measurements contain some element of error. No God paradigm required. No doomsday required.

    Typically the orbit determination takes multiple observations which are fed into a weighted matrix to get a best fit for the orbit parameters, that matrix derived from relative error estimates of each observation. A measurement platform outside Earth’s atmosphere helps reduce orbit determination error, but now there are also real time methods to quantify the perturbation of ground based observations due to the atmosphere to minimize the error. An orbital based observatory does give better line-of-sight field of view than an Earth based platform.

    2) take action to alter the orbit of the bolide if that orbit crosses Earth’s orbit at a time and place coincident with Earth’s presence at time and place. In other words, if its going to hit Earth. There are many proposed ways to do this, and some folks may see such action as interfering with God’s greater plan.

    Interfering with God’s greater plan…

    In reality, exactly the opposite is true. Humanity is God, since the conceptual assignment of “God” is exactly that, a concept born simply of the human’s highly mutated nervous system. (The neurotic human, having the most highly mutated nervous system, save perhaps the elephant or dolphin).

    If you don’t believe that, then just ask your favorite pet what “God” means. They won’t answer you in any meaningful manner, because they are not sentient beings with cognitive intellect as we humans are. And no matter how you interpret their barking, chirping, hissing, or other vocalizations or behaviors when you ask your simple question, your interpretation of your pet’s response is still purely and merely your own conception, largely formulated within the empathy center of your own highly mutated human nervous system. But don’t feel bad, because you are God. We all are. And if you don’t want to be, tough luck. You are anyway, like it or not.

    Now if you DO get a “philosophy of religion” response from your (non human) pet, then its time to get back on your meds.

    Continuing on this blasphemous thread – and yes, it is quite that indeed –

    Will Humankind ever have the ability to alter the orbit of a celestial body? Is it at all possible that we, as such a puny species in the greater scale and scope of the observable universe in which we live (dark matter included just for the sake of the most massive possible universe), will we ever be able to alter the working mechanics of the universe and the many bodies that orbit within?

    In plain fact, we already have. Many times. Simply by sending a space probe such as Voyager 2 (for one of many possible examples) though a gravitational slingshot maneuver to increase its heliocentric orbital energy, that same amount of heliocentric orbital energy is lost by the planet used for the slingshot maneuver. Voyager 2 used Saturn

    http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath114/kmath114.htm

    and that planet’s orbit was forever changed as a result. Forever.

    Now: does that mean that the Oort cloud will be disturbed as a result? Maybe yes, since ultimately all things depend on all other things in the multi-body gravitational environment. Likely no, however, due to the tiny effect the space craft has on the planet according to the ratio of mass of those two objects, spacecraft and planet. So we just have to keep things in perspective. No sloppy thinking allowed. Oort cloud – yeah we’re not really sure its out there, I know I know. Sorry, getting sloppy.

    So we want to change the orbit of a threatening object. By “threatening object”, I need to clarify that as an object by which WE FEEL threatened, because remember we are the cognizant, sentient beings, not the bolide. Bolide is NOT God. Humans ARE God. The farther off the bolide is, the less delta velocity we need to impart upon it to make it miss our home planet, the planet we would like to keep from being “cleansed by fire”. So we give that inert, non-sentient bolide a nudge from a really long distance.

    We do this most likely with a directed energy device of some kind to avoid having to send a slow, heavy, expensive and unreliable spacecraft half way to the (proposed) Oort cloud which would take generations of time en-route. And where does that get us? What do we get to show for all of our craftiness and mutated cranial grey matter ingenuity? What do we get for tampering with the heavens? For messing in God’s kitchen?

    It gets us on with life and gives us plenty more time to live it. It saves the Earth, or a large portion of the Earth, from ANOTHER deadly visit. It puts us in charge of our own destiny, as we have the responsibility be, by the nature of our being GOD of course! Come on – you already know this stuff, you should have figured it out from your dreams by now. Gonna be a test later…

    So to review, humans are born as ignorant animals, with a highly neurotic nervous system (most neurotic if you count by “units of mutation”).

    We struggle to learn by forming a rationalized world view based on that which we observe around us AND (critically important) based on our own brain music, which comes out of our rather neurotic boom box brains. That conceptual convolution, as Dr. Hermann Burchard will likely attest, is the key. We observe and we process. Then we communicate and share meaning. But the meaning isn’t exactly what we observed. It is instead our CONCEPTION of what we observed. It is the brainwave that results from what we saw. Our “crowbar transformed” version.

    We pick up a stick or a rock and learn to use tools, which pretty soon look like supercomputers running Hydrocode simulations of explosively fragmenting bolides or directed energy weapons after about 6000 or 600,000 years with the rock and the stick, the crowbar and the neurotic brain music, depending on who you want to trust on that pesky calendar matter.

    And sure enough, we nudge the bolide and we live to tell about it. No big deal. Its what Gods do. Get over it!

    We don’t bury our heads in some recursive and illogical sand pile with a trembling whimper of “the end is near”. Because we are survivors. That is why religion exists. Because we survived the earlier impacts BEFORE Mark Boslough and his generation of scientists were ever born into the chance of using Hydrocode. Some of our ancestors were lucky enough to read the memo from the future by Ed P. Grondine, with explicit instructions to run for the reed grass.

    And yes, I did just say “memo from the future” because it does sometimes seem like we humans, as the mutated brain species, must have a timeless collective conscience and a shared primal memory. How is this possible? No idea. As a scientist it is one of the most impossible concepts I’ve ever heard of. But the ones who know about sheltering in the reed grass are the ones who get to procreate, so check your time machine for FAXes on a regular basis. And for NEOs.

    Obviously we owe a serious debt of gratitude to Mr. Grondine. His insight is that of a surviving species. A species of survivors, with language and tools. A species with HYDROCODE! (If you don’t get that, look up “expanded equation of state” and see where that topic shows up)

    Back to our topic, which now I feel safe to title “Gods of Comets”

    Chicken Little, WE ARE GOD. You must face that with all of the humility of your conviction and faith, because to do any less is to accept failure, to not live up to our full potential as the human species, to quit, to give up. You know this already. That is why you read this forum. George knows this too, which is why he maintains the forum for us. Why did you read this?

    Its pretty easy to see. Scanning electron microscopy shows compositional variation in the radial dimension of the larger impact spherules. Some of the bigger melt spherules are over 5 mm, which means they had a loooooong time in the heat to outgas and condense and all of those beautiful processes that Hydrocode modeling now tells us take place in large scale, high energy impacts.

    Long time in the heat means the oven stayed on for a while. This means a huge rocky bolide to cause a huge crater, or… a surface contacting fireball oven with a big fireball(s) to keep the rock melting for a while. Then boiling.

    The radial compositional variation tells us that the even the highest melt temp components like MgO were not simply melted. They vaporized. Somewhere above 3600 C. Boiled to vapor.

    When rock boils to vapor, you can not hide. You can not conceptualize. You can not pay your mortgage. You have no credit rating. you are very screwed. That is why as a species, we take action and we survive. We are descendants of survivors. We ARE the surviving genetic. We are mutated, curious, neurotic, tool using communicators. We are the ones with the power to take action and transform our environment when we can no longer survive what it presents us. We are the ones who can migrate across oceans when we have to. We are the ones who can cultivate crops when we have to. We are the ones who can flake a point from obsidian, and we are the ones who can speak and teach that practice to others in our own neurotic species.

    We are the ONLY Gods who ever will or ever can protect ourselves from some measly space rock or
    “puny” progenitor comet, platinum or no. We are the ones who must act or lose that option. Possibly forever. The biggest risk of all is to do nothing.

    If you don’t believe WE are the gods in this effort, why do you read here?

    TH

  • chicken little

    I BEEN WAITING FOR 40 YEARS FOR THE RELIGION OF SCIENCE TO ASK A LEGITIMATE QUESTION.. seems now they may have found a real question. Let’s pray they will find the real answer! but maybe I can try and help in my own special way 😛

    you say we are God’s, why does this reminds me of my favorite scene from the Avengers ..(a confrontation between Loki and Hulk)

  • chicken little

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy61Va1L4cM I’m telling you this one will go down as a all time classic! man that is an important lesson.. I will be lurking around .. if you need anymore special guidance! ;P

  • Steve Garcia

    TH –

    “It’s what gods do.”

    Absolutely.

  • Steve Garcia

    TH –

    “Rocks boiled to vapor” and Magnesium, too. Melting and then vaporizing is what goes on in ablation, too, just to point that out.

    But the expansion of a rock or MG during vaporization is pretty monumental, much above a liquid vaporizing as in water turning to steam as magma exits a volcano. Numbers don’t have, but the effects have to be horrific for anything within range. One type of lava is boulders that jet out the expanding steam, and it goes down the mountainside like an air hockey puck, riding a cushion of air – but also jetting outward hundreds of feet to the sides, scorching anything near its path. And they go down at high speed, too. You don’t want to be close enough to see it coming at you. With rocks vaporizing, I can envision something of the sort as the expand as they are ejected. Added to the radiant energy, it’s a nasty thing to contemplate. There are so many ways impactors do their damage, it is more than frightening.

    As to God’s retribution upon man, you are right – that is all in the minds of religious tinfoil hat folks. Like the ones who assign 9-11 to God’s punishment of the USA. Silly season stuff, and not worth our time here. I give George credit for having the patience with CL, but that stuff contributes nothing worthwhile to the discussion.

    As to our plans to divert an incomer, to my knowledge we have nothing effectual. The #1 plan, a kinetic impact by anything we are capable of putting up from Earth, isn’t going to move a 1 km object enough to pee on. We need a plan to launch from the Moon or from a trojan point, and it needs to be much bigger than what is planned. I favor sequential nukes or perhaps simultaneous nukes from 2 sides – to fragment efficiently. If the fragments are Tunguska size, mankind will survive, even if there are scores of them that size. Chelyabinsk-sized would be essentially harmless. Launching from Earth is a fart in a windstorm. IMHO. They have to figure on massive overkill with the most energetic interception possible. Too small and the problem is exascerbated, as everyone knows. But the solution to that is NOT to attempt a surgical just-enough approach, but to kick its butt into kingdom come. (Oh? Did Steve use a religious reference?…lol)

    SMALL fragments are good fragments. Then we just let the atmosphere burn them suckahs…

  • chicken little

    hey boys you didn’t think I would let you get by with this did you really ?

    .. Now for a book you all think as irrelevant and made up by men … it still seems to me that Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened , and ye shall be as gods , knowing good and evil . because forget about the fruit you two have to be main lining that stuff . seems you two never got far from that tree now did you! that book is reading your boys mail and you think that being like a god is cute… your so smart..
    you got to know that’s the original lie, and not even a good lie.. and you were trying to persuade me with brilliance with that one … I mean the devil himself already tried a really good lie, that means a way better lie than that one me .
    that book sure read your boys mail, you know it is as if it looked into the future and saw our time and the souls of a whole generation of the most arrogant people to ever exist and then told it’s story hum? ;P

    Did you know a terrible 2 year old does think he is a terrible two year old?

  • chicken little

    so talking about Aliens and you being a GOD’ in order to save yourselves… and save the universe !!! fast as a speeding bullet , supermen !

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEQdvYFMBAU&feature=youtu.be

    And the two witness? well the anti -two

    Wanna bet they save us of from other Awful Men, and give humanity the ‘freedom’ it’s deserves….’ freedom from other Gods” and ” freedom from religion” … and they will promise to give us back our real democratic freedoms..

    Why will it be we can have those freedoms to be evil but never will they allow the freedoms to be righteous or holy or pure , and to be set apart or even have privacy . mostly they will promise to free us from men and will claim that we are “spiritual god’s like them ” just like he told Eve and she bought it and she was perfect……. wanna bet you do ?

    You know the enemy knows his only chance is trying to get God to repent for his choices. by proving men to be stupid monkeys … it doesn’t look good does it ?

  • Unfortunately, irrational babbling does nothin to advance the technical discussion or knowledge base that actually serves some chance of contributing to the overall effort here – that of identification and mitigation of the currently mis-characterized cosmic impact threat.

    At the risk of being overly negative- by irrational babbling I mean to include young earth babble, heaven’s gate or other nonsense cult teachings, and all other forms of blind faith that suggest or suppose that scientific understanding of our local and cosmic environment is not the best and most potentially useful means to protect human kind, both from ourselves as well as from the risks inherent in those environments in which we find ourselves as a species in this age of awakening.

    Scientific awakening.

    And I say this humbly and with complete respect for other people of faith such as myself. I just happen to place my own faith on a different number of the roulette wheel than some of those others. Faith is not a bad thing. As a uniquely human construct, I think faith is a very good thing.

    I also faithfully believe that the powers of Human reason and Science have a better chance of protecting our species from threats around us than does any faith in whatever deity(s) of choice. And in that vein there are many choices…

    As is often shown in history, faith in whatever deity(s) of choice, especially when combined with nationalistic pride and fear of those different from ourselves, is more likely to cause mass destruction of humanity and recorded knowledge through warfare, terrorism or crusade (other names for warfare).

    That’s just how the numbers fall. Distasteful? Certainly. Offensive? ABSOLUTELY! Historically accurate none the less.

    Faith in science and/or democracy merely frightens and enrages the very same fundamentalists whom those concepts ultimately threaten. Those threats take the form of self governance, empowerment of the individual, and a better hope for the survival of our species as a whole.

    The thing is, if you wait for an impact while doing absolutely nothing, are you helping yourself at all?

    TH

  • When the fireball or mega-tsunami arrive, it really doesn’t matter what you believe or where you place your faith, if you have any.

    It’s what you do in the mean time to help yourself, and to help our species, that really matters or stands to make any difference at all. And of course by that I do completely discount any/all placebo effect of buryin one’s head in the sand or any other denial mechanism. But if that is your preference, keep any eye out down there near the Younger Dryas Boundary for some of those tens of millions of tons of cosmic impact micro spherules.

    TH

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Tom –

    Among the “faiths” that you list, you need to include those who believe in an Earth-like Mars, and the utopian visions they have of man living on Mars.

    They are by far the most active in impeding impact research.

    Other groups are the Electric Universe folks, who do not understand impact mechanics or scaling laws. And then you have the culot archaeology folks.

    Dealing with all three can eat up all of your resources. But since you can not ignore them, you have to take them on.

  • Yeah.

    Like I was sayin’.

  • Here is an interesting paper I found on anomalous microspherules in transition boundary sediments.

  • Oops, sorry, wrong thread. Oh well. Enjoy.

  • chicken little

    http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/06/2013/royal-rhynie-focus-of-pictish-excavation

    oh boy I wonder how many will understand that one Pictish stone Pictures scene …. looks pretty clear to me and I’m not Pictish (or am I .)

    so the Picts claim their closest relations are real native Americans not the offspring of asians slaves brought here by the Europeans in the last 500 years.. the missing offspring of more than 1000000 asians.. and now people that are passed off as sciences pick for native Americans. so maybe the PIcts really are cousins of the real people here but separated by a history yet explained by the religion of scientism and it’s pure goofy beliefs.

    but the Picts are obviously trying to record something and it seems so clear to me.. 😛 . can any of you interpret the circles story? it is pretty clear . I mean pre computer animation they did a great of drawing it out .

  • chicken little

    it is NOT explained by the myths , beliefs and circular reasoned
    ‘proofs” of the religion of scientism !
    the eye witnesses WIN!!

  • Today I have ordered The Comets of God, second-hand 5 Euro less expensive than a new copy.
    In Goodman’s The Earthquake Generation (1979) there are a few well readable chapters (4:Catastrophism vs.uniformitarianism; 7 Pole Shift). The author is well-read, and gives his references, though not always correctly.

    However he is a christian, and seems to give a positive interpretation of the Earth and the human condition as created by God. That means he has read, like the other christians I meet, the Gospel of John without noticing its fascist passages, the source of all the crimes perpetrated during two millennia. One ex-catholic filled 10 heavy volumes with them (Kriminalgeschichte des Christentums).

    I am feeling more at home with the Greek tragedians, Shakespeare, the pessimist Bible books Job and Ecclesiastes,
    and the Poetes Maudits.
    Right now I am reading Chargraff: Abscheu von der Weltgechichte (Abhorrence of World History).

    And I pray that, next time around, I’ll be born on a planet where the biosphere is not organised along foodchains.

  • Steve Garcia

    Han –

    I wonder if exposure to food chains on extraterrestrial biospheres would change us enough to change our food chain mentality here? If we really DID know that we are only one of any number of food chains? Our human exceptionalism should be altered, but in what ways? Hopefully not more of the “us vs them” driven by our warmongering fear mongers.

  • Hermann Burchard

    Han,
    there are good reasons to suspect super-volcanoes are in fact generated by ET impacts excavating down to the mantle in the initial impact explosion. This requires a huge impactor or else thin crust as in ocean sea floor, or in regions were the crust has been thinned by geodynamic processes as for example in the Eifel volcanic field in the Rhine region (related to the Upper Rhine Graben, northward push of the Alps according to Gillian Foulger, see her mantleplume.org webpage). The timing of the Laach supervolcano at 12,920 BP is discussed in many YDB-related papers because it is suspiciously close to the YDB impact and may well have been the result to the impact of an ~100 m fragment of the YDB impactor, presumably a comet of known fragility. This impact (or volcano eruption for doubters) is blamed for widespread destruction in NW Europe, see your own 1999 paper, The Usselo Horizon, a Worldwide Charcoal-Rich Layer of Alleröd Age, which is often quoted in YDB papers. I found it online here: http://www.catastrophist.org/home/usselo-2002/

  • Hi Hermann

    A meteoroid with only 100 m is too small to do any damage, maybe just a little hole, insufficient to cause a break in Earth crust and a localized destruction.

    Were millions of fragments and the scars are everywhere.

    Do You know this simulator? It can give an idea of ​​power, comparable to atomic explosion.

    http://impact.ese.ic.ac.uk/ImpactEffects/

    regards
    pierson

  • Han Kloosterman

    Steve, I am dreaming of a planet with a vegetation cover devoid of carnivorous plants, full of producers of delicious fruits like mangoes, cherries and avocados. No carnivores at all, only bookish people like myself who, frugivorously, before dying have time to read all the books they want. A frugivorous cat on my lap.
    Impossible? Aren’t G.d, God and Allah omnipotent? Or so they say.

  • Han Kloosterman

    Hermann, there exists a paper written by 2 Dutchmen on an exposure in Germany very close to the border with Luxembourg.
    Unfortunately I have lost both paper and reference – that’s what can happen when you have an agitated life and often change your country of residence.
    On that place the authors describe a thin layer of Laacher See tuff overlying, separated by only a thin layer of sand, the Usselo Layer (as identified by me from their description). That establishes the temporal sequence, but not the time interval, and doesn’t exclude a causal relationship.

    The interval of 600ys postulated by Kaiser et al. is clearly inspired by the interpretation of the Usselo Horizon as a soil, which it is not.

  • Steve Garcia

    Han…

    Mangoes and avocados? It sounds like where I now live in central Mexico. The avocado capital of the world is abou 90 miles south of here. And the mangoes are to die for – or live for.

    No carnivorous plants, either. Are strawberries okay instead of cherries?

    I do have time to read all the books I want. On several subjects. To my heart’s content.

    And it LOOKS and FEELS like paradise. Look up the city of Guanajuato. And in addition, it has a climate in the top five cities in the world.

  • Han Kloosterman

    Steve, and the all-wise christian God of Goodman can decide to teach you a lesson, and obliterate Mexico tomorrow by sending another comet Yucatan-way.
    My God can do so also, with the difference that I am ignorant about his motivation, if any.

  • Steve Garcia

    Han –

    If my days are numbered due to an incoming object, I will remain here as long as I can, and if I go, I go. And I will blame it on NASA for not intercepting it. Not on God. Or G.d. Or Yahweh. Or Vishnu. Or Baal. Or the devil.

    I am convinced that all the beginnings of religion came about because of impacts being witnessed by non-scientific-minded people. But not because they themselves thought it was the gods. Only because later people began to think it was something magical instead of rational accounts of what they witnessed. Without thinking that magic is real religion couldn’t exist. Without ignorance religion couldn’t exist.

    And then, even later on, the arkies misread it all because the intervening peoples were unenlightened and the arkies couldn’t tell the difference.

    Science is the attempt to take the magical out of our view of the world we encounter. It’s only been going for 350 years or so, so it is still a toddler. Give it another 2000 years.

    That is, if NASA doe it’s job.

  • Han Kloosterman

    But Steve, I AM convinced that magic is real!
    Science, your toddler, has grown up from its post-1860 positivism to its post-hippie tendency to become each decade more countercultural.
    Please do some Internet research on Entanglement, and compare that p.e. with Backster’s data on primary perception, or with the astounding cases of twin telepathy.

    If I were 60ys younger than I am, I wouldn’t opt for a university education, but search for a guru – some shaman in Siberia or Amazonia.

  • Steve Garcia

    Han –

    Would that be Cleve Backster, the polygraph expert?

    And would that be quantum entanglement?

    I’ve only recently become familiar with the term Positivism, but it seems I knew all about that already, without the name – as an outsider and one that thinks it is one of the blind alleys science has gone down.

    It seems that when I myself was 60 years younger than you are now I did just what you said – I opted OUT of a university education. And in a way I DID find my guru. Not a shaman but a psychic. Mas o menos igual… So now I am 45 years on from that time, and have a lifetime of out-of-the-box real world education. But the real world – like college – is only an education if one is paying attention and not getting sidetracked too much.

    I am VERY HAPPY that I left school when I did. My life has been filled with much learning, on many topics. I am not a one note singer; I have fingers in many pies. This one is the most fun – but not by a landslide. It is also the one I think is most important.

    Your time in Brazil and such – I envy you that.

  • Steve Garcia

    Han –

    Also, like many, I think that magic is just physics/chemistry not yet revealed.

    Steve

  • Han Kloosterman

    Yes Steve that’s him, Cleve Backster. And on twin telepathy it’s Guy Lyon Playfair, who spent 4ys in Brazil where I met him.
    All such phenomena are now falling under the heading entanglement.
    In the UK it was called the Group Mind, from observing thousands of young sparrows flying and suddenly turning together. I’ve seen fishes doing it also, on TV.
    And it’s not only identical twins that are entangled, also less similar family members, and after years of marriage, married couples. I learned that the hard way, after my divorce.

  • Steve Garcia

    Han –

    The group mind thing with flocks of birds or schools of fish – I see it as if it is different organs or muscle cells of the same appendage of a body, just a body that is not physically connected. We assume that all bodies are physically connected parts, but is that necessarily so? Where there is one mind, there is one body – connected or not.

    This is the kind of thing that Rupert Sheldrake deals with.

    In reductionism the parts are assumed to make up the whole – but when they see apparently disconnected parts making up an obvious whole, which the birds and fish do in their movements, the reductionists are struck dumb and cannot accept it, even though every 4-year-old knows it is happening. Just because they cannot recognize that there may be connections at some non-physical level, the reductionists either ignore it or try to crowbar it into some silly self-important speculation (then after pontificating making themselves scarce for follow-up questions). Anything except that the birds or fish all DO have one mind controlling their actions.

    Just so the reductionists claim that migrating birds navigate with an intrnal compass. Once they found a minute amount of magnetic material in the birds’ brains, the reductionists assumed that it was connected with navigating. But I lived for 37 years on a migration route, and 90% of the time when I’d see migrating flocks they weren’t going north or south; they were going mostly east or west or skewed. Sometimes I’d see two different flocks going in different directions at the same time. Why would they be doing that if their internal compasses point them north and south? My observations over many years argue against their hypothesis. I did not observe the flock directions until after I’d read of the internal compass. Immediately I saw the exact opposite of birds following a north south path, and thought, “Well THAT doesn’t agree with their idea!” They rarely flew north in spring and south in fall. My observations were always made with the hypothesis consciously in mind, and the vast majority of the time the birds’ directions did not agree with the hypothesis. It was not what I expected, but it is what I observed.

    I know little about the entanglement you are talking about, though I have read about twins being psychically attuned – even ones separated and living separate lives. I don’t know enough to have an opinion. But my daughter has triplets, so maybe there will be some family tales in the upcoming years. The triplets are a pair of identicals and one fraternal third. It might be interesting to see if the identicals have more of a connection than the third. I am 1600 miles away so can’t observe them.

    I am not a fan of statistics in science. The statistics are subject to misinterpretations and misrepresentations. IMHO if they need stats, they don’t have anything solid. And that goes for quantum physics, too. As Einstein said, “God does not play dice with the universe.” Science is about measuring distances, time, forces, frequencies, etc. When it is necessary to include the odds of something, I consider it to be pseudo science, or misguided science, or science that they haven’t gotten on solid ground yet (but are pretending that by attaching values to something it will look more like science). So far all the data-collecting people and model programs that are written are at the mercy of the interpretation of the researcher’s ability to interpret. It becomes like judging an ice skating routine in the Olympics. At least there they have the common decency to know that human factors alter the judging. In science, biased data is accepted as equal in status to the good data – and good data is not infrequently excluded.

    As Mark Twain said, “There are lies, and there are damned lies – and then there are statistics!”

  • Han Kloosterman

    Steve, the first time I read about a manifestation of the group mind was in Euge’ne Marais, die Siel van die Mier (The Soul of the White Ant), dating from 1934. Not about ants, but about termites. The moment the Queen dies, all the termites start to return to the anthill. No pheromones but telepathy.

    I share your distrust of statistics. The data are too easily manipulated, their interpretation is paradigm-dependant.

  • Steve Garcia

    “The data are too easily manipulated, their interpretation is paradigm-dependant.”

    Yes, isn’t that the truth!

    I keep telling people that science is not an accumulation of facts, that it is an accumulation of interpretations of facts.

    NO TWO researchers assign the same importance to each fact among a collection of facts. Assigning different weights to each means each researcher comes to different conclusions – even when they both THINK they are in agreement.

    We had a saying in design: “If you give the same problem to 1,000 designers you will get 2,000 designs.”

    It starts with the first step. Each goers in a slightly different direction, and they do an Einstein random walk from there.

    But the more stats in a paper the more bias. It begins with the selection of data, and it never stops.

    I once read (and never found it again) that 85% of all C14 dates are rejected, mostly due to the dates not fitting in the expected range. The reason given usually is “contamination.” Many times it isn’t even given. The lab results are just thrown away.

    They simply do not want to deal with anomalies – which is sad, because in the anomalies is the route to really understanding the overall. Pretending they don’t exist is hubris and stupidity, all rolled into one ball. But it is good for careerism to simply not rock the boat.