Judacallah Rock (repost of scrambled original)

There’s been a lot of interesting chatter on the Tusk lately about cosmically inspired aboriginal Rock Art.  The strange etchings and scratchings on rocks around the world have long caused speculation that at least some portion of the art is inspired from above, the question is how much, what exactly did they see, and when did they see it.  For instance,Pierson Bieretto over at Cosmopier has done wonderful work knitting together rock art in Northern Brazil with the still-unproven-but-damn-well-happened Tupana Event.

North Carolina, my home, is not known for pertroglyphs.  But we do have a few.  Below is a photo of the forever enigmatic “Judacallah Rock” in the Great Smokey Mountains of Jackson County, North Carolina.  This odd beast is surely our state’s best known, if relatively lonely, ancient stone canvas.

So, I throw it out there.  Is there perhaps anything at all cosmically inspired about Judacullah Rock? Many say it is reminiscent of microscopic creatures — about as far from comets and asteroids as one can get (but intriguing in itself).

Anybody see anything from above here?

Click here for Google on Judacullah Rock.

  • George Howard

    Testing testing.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi George, all –

    Let’s see if the comment form works now.

    You’re looking at the petroglyph upside down. The way you posted the photograph, the two comet fragments are in the lower left hand corner.

    It is almost certain that the petroglyph is the work of the Andaste Giants, (T’sul/gul, T’suni/gul in Cherokee) as the Ani Tsulagii (Cherokee) remembered. That would place its initial carving at 900 BCE, the time of the Andaste’s arrival in the area.

    If you notice to the right of the comet fragments there is a circular structure shown, which most likely represents an Andaste astronomical sacrificial center, where they would kill infants at the appearance of Comet Encke.

    As the Cherokee defeated the Andaste, the site was later used by them to commemorate their military victories.

    The holes may be from cup stones taken by Cherokee to be used to hold drill bows in place for sacred fire starting, but without a visit to the area, to locate the petroglyph and the alignments with other natural features and Andaste remains, not much more can be said with any certainty. That survey would take a couple thousand dollars just for gas, food and lodging.

    Anyone wishing to learn more about the Andaste and their astronomy may want to purchse and read my and Fletcher Wilson (one of Ohio’s top naked eye astronomers) booklet on Serpent Mound.

    If any of you have not read “Man and Impact in the Americas” yet, the cosmic tusk special is a great deal, and I’ll throw in a copy of the booklet with the book.

  • E.P. Grondine

    oops, lower right hand corner

  • chicken little

    gosh and 2900 years ago is really close too about 2800 years ago and this record ..
    .http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Ki&c=20&t=KJV#10
    so how much presure does it take to reverse the turing of the earth and because of the law which says for every actions there is a equal and opposite reactions AND so WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS OF THAT MUCH PRESSURE that it reversed the turning of our world?

    so wouldn’t it be about at the same time as they came out from hidding to tell a tale?
    just because you can’t find them there before that in that spot … after that event doesn’t mean a thing, and it certainly doesn’ t mean they were not there before that event either. if this was even close to a world reversing event! with the fires and floods that follow that level of world altering pressures . plus a millions moore unasked questions like ..
    I mean even if you stop the world what does that do to the moon? or reverse the turning of the world AND how does that effect the moon and it would effect everything !
    oh no they haven’t even started asking relevant questions yet..
    no they are still trying to date things by soil levels and carbon and radioactive elements….

  • George Howard

    One way or another, Ed, you and i are doing that dude.

  • chicken little

    also Ed the Andaste/Susquehonnoc are mixed with Iroquois and other tribes that came later . the most correct term is . The word Andasti is probably just a lost clan that later cherokee just record as
    ” anistasti” you can google.
    probably best name of the ones you are speaking of is
    Alleg or Allegewi
    thus the alleg-ani etc.
    Ollie Nionee was ALLE , thus paint clan

  • Hermnn “Herm the Germ” Burchard

    Spelling varies: Judaculla appears to be a corruption of Cherokee “Tsul ‘Kalu,” a giant with odd habits like uprooting bunches of trees, could be another one of those comet myths. Please Ed or Chicken Little perhaps you can translate. One story is from
    http://bythegods.tumblr.com/

    and goes like this:
    “Tsul ‘Kalu (literally translating to “the slant-eyed or sloping giant”) is a figure in Cherokee mythology who is “the great lord of the game,” a title used in hunting rituals. Tsul ‘Kalu is a giant with sloped eyes by day, but a normal sized man at night. Many believe Tsul ‘Kalu to be the Cherokee version of the Sasquatch. The story of Tsul ‘Kalu goes a lil’ somethin’ like this: A young girl of marrying age was told by her mother that she should marry a great hunter. That very night a nice young man (Tsul ‘Kalu) greeted her at her home and brought with him a whole deer for the young girl and her mother. He left before daylight, and the mother approved, although they hadn’t met yet. The next few nights he brought more deer until the mother told her daughter to ask him to bring wood next visit. Tsul ‘Kalu heard the mother’s thoughts (due to his clairvoyance) so that night he brought two whole trees. The mother and daughter didn’t catch on that it’s impossible for a single man to bring two whole trees, so they invited him to stay the night. Tsul ‘Kalu warned them that neither would like what they would see in the morning, (which goes for many of us night-owls) but he eventually agreed and curled up on the floor by his lady friend. The next morning the young woman awoke to find a huge man doubled over, legs reaching the roof and his head against the far wall. Tsul ‘Kalu grew angry and wandered away into the wilderness, where everything makes sense, never to be seen again.”

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Chicken –

    “Alle” or “Allegwi” appears to be a name made up by Europeans to account for the similarity in sound between Tallegewi and Alle/ghenny. The two words are NOT related.

    The Andaste arrived in North America much later than the Iroquoian peoples.

    The Andaste move into the area ca. 900 BCE can be RC dated by their first large use of the mica and copper deposits located there.

    The mechanics of “crustal shift” have been looked at. The amount of force necessary for a crustal shift would fragment the Earth.

    I will google ani/stasi.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi George –

    “One way or another, Ed, you and I are doing that dude.”

    I’d love to George, but the problem as always is cash. (It’s getting cold here in Illinois.)

    Perhaps you could set up a non-profit (since it appears you have good skills in form work) and we could raise some donations.

    It would help if I had Fletcher Wilson with me to do the astrometry.

    There is also a large sky serpent (uktena – comet) petroglyph elsewhere in the Cherokee lands which should be looked at as well.

  • chicken little

    Uktena may also be some kind of unidentified real serpent of some kind as my ancestor is said to have acquired a shell or scales of one of them . said to be magical and a water serpent. It was not a sky serpent that I know of anyway ..

    these stories are some how true or maybe just truth is found in them .. but ones point of view is fundamental in all interpretations of anything . just as some read Revelations and can’t figure out a word of it .. that lack of understanding is always about the reader not the words.

    that story is someone truely someones point of veiw of events.
    the question is do they or even we understand from the story all things which really transpired at those events. I doubt it.

    my guess is a asian faced giant with the help of his pets some thing maybe even mammoths and such .. ….are at the root of this.
    giants were once common place in north america.. said to be powerful and great hunters and wily and deceptive .
    that is my guess. but it is just a guess.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Chicken Little –

    If you read my book, you won’t need to “guess” on much of this. All I’m going to tell you is that much of what you wrote in this comment is wrong.

  • chicken little
  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi chicken little –

    Beautiful website, but…

    once again, there were no “allegewi”. Its a name made up by European colonists.

    The area covered in the website was most likely under Erie and/or Seneca control from “forever”.

    Read the book, then speak.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi chicken little –

    Beautiful website, but…

    Once again, there were no “allegewi”. When you go back and look at the literature, it is a name made up by European colonists, which has been repeated again and again and again and again and again.

    You have to remember that since there were no “Allegewi”, European claims that the lands were the property of this supposedly extinct “Allegewi” made it easier for them to steal those lands from the peoples who did own them.

    There was a people who the Lenape called Tallegewi in their traditions, which is to say Tjalegii/wi nearly properly. They were ancestral to both the Cherokee and Tchillega division of the Shawnee, and the Lenape were specifically referring to Tchalage/wi division Shawnee in their migration tradition.

    The area covered in the website was most likely under Erie and/or Seneca control from “forever” until the Lenape arrival. The southern part was Lenape land at the time of European contact.

    BTW, Eastern Bison ran in “pods”.

    They aren’t paying me enough to deal with this.

  • Hi Chicken Little: “Uktena may also be some kind of unidentified real serpent of some kind as my ancestor is said to have acquired a shell or scales of one of them . said to be magical and a water serpent.” The preceding reference you have made to a “water serpent” intrigues me. Could I contact you regrading this via your private email address, please?

  • Hello for All

    This American panel is really fantastic, many of them can be found in various parts of the world, Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, England and various parts of Africa, an exploding sky panel.

    There are explosive elements, others simulate downward movement, these records are often used in prehistoric rock art.

    Although many researchers prefer to interpret these panels to the vision of art lysergic 50’s and 60’s, imagining that the authors of these prehistoric rock arts carried them out under the influence of hallucinogens, just an abstract design, certain mistake.

    Underlying these panels dealing with the description of scenes of their everyday life … whem unexpectedly the sky explodes and begin to drop pieces of the heaven … the rest we know from other sources.

    Very nice panel important for research in this area!
    regards
    pierson

  • George Howard

    Thanks for the wonderful comment, Pierson.

  • Hi George, All

    A little more about Judacallah Rock and the Carolina Bays.

    At the ende of the page:
    https://sites.google.com/site/cosmopier/impact-craters/end-pleistocene-palaeolagoons

    What do you think?
    regards
    pierson

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Pierson –

    The Andaste arrive on the coast of Canada ca. 8,350 BCE. So far I have not recovered their YD accounts; a search for them would take around $12,000.

    We doi know that comet impact was central to their religious practices, and this is set out in the pamphlet (Wilson, Grondine, 2010) which I mentioned earlier.

    The Andaste migrated into what latter became Cherokee lands about 900 BCE.

    Note carefully that two comet fragments are shown in this petroglyph.

  • George Howard

    I’ll stake an expedition as soon as I can. Might be a year or two, but we will do it.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi George –

    One thing I learned after many years: the thing to do is to set up a non-profit.
    Its the best cash multiplier around for work on impact. Astronaut Schweikert and his colleagues did it, though the thought never occured to me before that; but then that’s why they’re astronauts.

    E.P.

  • Hi Ed, All

    A priori it is difficult to define whether a graphical representation representing a comet or a meteor, a shooting star or a fireball. All these representations can be extremely similar.

    The bolides that formed the craters of the Carolina Bays were quite large, much larger than the Tunguska.

    From the site of Judacallah Rock toward the east-southeast horizon was possible to see these meteroros come at a low angle coming from right to left. The drawing of two comet/like figures with a solution that may well be the representation of fireballs.

    Although I have made a simple chart on my page, anyone can run a simulation in a virtual planetarium visualization of the phenomenon and finds that the parallax of the picture is consistent for these craters may have formed by meteors coming from the southern hemisphere sky.

    Investigation of parallax in the prehistoric drawings can be an important contribution.

    The demonstrational is relatively simple for those who mastered specific software. I believe someone in some planetarium or university could help. Unfortunately I do not dominate these programs and I not have access to these people. It is a matter of time, anytime someone somewhere will do.

    Like the Serpent Mounth the Judacallah Rock seem to record bolides.

    regards
    pierson

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Pierson –

    While similarities in representation do make the task of distinguishing events difficult, your “a priori” and my “a priori” are different.
    I have some knowledge
    of who the people who made this were, and of their belief system, and this is a powerful tool for sorting this out, and of providing a means of dodging errors.
    Judaculah Rock does not represent the YD event.

  • Hi Ed

    I know nothing about prehistory, myths etc of Native Americans, nor do I have this pretension. What I have observed empirically, at several archaeological sites in various parts of the world, is that there is a relation between representations and a “possible” interpretation of the rock arts images to bolide, and meteors.

    The model of the parallax hypótese is reinforced by the existence of fields of elliptic structures (or craters), lined palaeolagoons, inside the horizon view from the places where the thematic rock arts are found.

    I could talk about statistics, but the collection is so small, I can only speak of “coincidences observed” on these achaeological and palaeosites. This approach is new, and investigations are only just beginning.

    Sure, we have different perspectives and approaches for the subject. In any case, better the diversity of discussion than the monotony of a speech. After all this is science, is discussed.

    thanks for your considerations
    regards
    pierson

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Pierson,

    Once again we have excellent observations and comments from you. The study of impacts during man’s existence is indeed a new field of study.

    Parallels do work as a method in general, but in the case of the Juducallah Rock petroglyph we have a lot of specific data on who first made it and when.

  • chicken little

    Rod I”m sorry I just saw your post.
    I have figured out long ago that I only give white folks recorded info as
    “proof” as I am sick and tired of having my ancestors be called liars..
    so if I can’t “prove it with white folks/ or late coming folks “records” then I just won’t tell anything.
    here is the only proof I will share with you on this subject, as this is white folks records.. and as you saw the ones with a feather in their cap will promptly call the white folks records Liars”, but I refuse to let anyone call my ancestors liars anymore.

    either way I just can’t win..as someone is always calling me a liar if it don’t fit their contructs..

    so you judge this Uktena info for yourself.. you can call them a liar, myth or whatever if you wish too.

    ShoeBoots aka “White owls son” AKA OLD Cock trans…. crowing chicken / ancient chicken …
    Dasigiyagi aka Tuskingo ( spelled many ways) . Turtle at home >sallecookiewallah and a few more names..

    ps I was told my family tales from the great granddaughter of the man mentioned there . he is my grandfather 4 or 5 times that I know of .. and probably the same clan.

  • chicken little
  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Chicken –

    No one is calling you or your ancestor a liar.

    He got his Uktena scale from a Shawnee. The Uktena were real.

    As Grandaughter did not tell you what that was,
    once again, read my book – then contact me.
    I don’t share information on the scales publicly, but only with Cherokee, for good reason.

  • chicken little

    yes you DID! I clearly stated Ollie was Alle
    you called the white records lies and made up myths .

    …. but if i didn’t post from white records information about ALLEGEWI , ALLEG ETC
    ..every other one ELSE this list WOULD HAVE CALLED ME A LIAR if not in print then under their breath..!
    NOW WOULDN’T THEY Mr ED!
    but I say you and most 0f these folks are the one with some made up myths.. yes…scientific agreed upon realities/ but constructs that have nothing to do with real reality or anyones history ..

    at least now though after 40 years of waiting , I think they just might be starting to get a clue / and ask a relavent question or two /
    oh but one likes the answers… oh well .

    either way truth is going to go where it wants.. and not stay where we want it to . it is not bound or owned by anyone.