folder Filed in Random Tusks
Knock Out: Joe Rogan hosts epic 3.5 hour podcast debating the Younger Dryas impact
George Howard comment 30 Comments

Almost 24 hours later and I am still catching my breath. Last night’s Joe Rogan Experience podcast was pure heaven for the Tusk.

As folks might have noted, the world’s most popular interview podcast has taken a long-standing interest in our subject. Graham Hancock has appeared on Rogan six times in recent years, I believe, each visit breaking new viewership records for the show and each episode more closely studying the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis. Rogan’s regular audience is perhaps second only to the regular readership of this blog in their understanding of the YDIH. What pleasurable company.

The special thing about this particular episode, despite its wide popularity, was the debate format. Joe paired Graham with another regular guest, professional skeptic Michael Skeptic, and he and Graham brought like-minded sidekicks Randall Carlson and Mark Defant, respectively. If that were not enough to pull you in, Dr. Malcolm LeCompete of the Comet Research Group was introduced for the last 45 minutes in order to close the deal.

So who won the debate? Hancock and crew OWNED Shermer et al., to the point of embarrassment. It was truly hard to watch Shermer, a likable fellow, wither in the face of the peer-reviewed science. He and skeptical fellow travelers (like Mark Boslough) are very subject to difficulties with long-form communication. “Back-and-forth” ain’t their thang — and it shows.

Carlson Hancock LeCompete Shermer

  • agimarc

    Great find. Cheers –

  • REH

    My comment (earlier) appears to have not made the cut…

  • Trent Telenko

    The thing that bugged the heck out of me regards Shermer and the other skeptics on Rogen’s podcast was their facile dismissal of civilization earlier than Göbekli Tepe.

    No where in recorded history has a hunter-gatherers society built a neolithic structure of the scale and duration of Göbekli Tepe.

    Göbekli Tepe was a going concern for multiples of the total duration the United States of America has been in existence.

    The idea that a hunter-gatherers society would have 500 (+) years of both social surplus and consistent institutional drive to construct Göbekli Tepe amounts to believing six impossible things before breakfast.

    It is far easier to believe in earlier civilizations than to believe in a stable 500-year old hunter-gatherers society building, and then burying, a neolithic structure of the scale and duration of Göbekli Tepe.

    I’m reminded here of the anthropologists being complete denial that clothing is more than several thousand years old until the recent genetic data on when body/clothing lice came in and showed exactly when they moved from our hairy heads to our clothing covered but hairless bodies.

  • Trent Telenko

    The thing that bugged the heck out of me regards Shermer and the other skeptics on Rogen’s podcast was their facile dismissal of civilization earlier than Göbekli Tepe.

    No where in recorded history has a hunter-gatherers society built a neolithic structure of the scale and duration of Göbekli Tepe.

    Göbekli Tepe was a going concern for multiples of the total duration the United States of America has been in existence.

    The idea that a hunter-gatherers society would have 500 (+) years of both social surplus and consistent institutional drive to construct Göbekli Tepe amounts to believing six impossible things before breakfast.

    It is far easier to believe in earlier civilizations than to believe in a stable 500-year old hunter-gatherers society building, and then burying, a neolithic structure of the scale and duration of Göbekli Tepe.

    I’m reminded here of the anthropologists being complete denial that clothing is more than several thousand years old until the recent genetic data on when body/clothing lice came in and showed exactly when they moved from our hairy heads to our clothing covered but hairless bodies.

  • Trent Telenko

    Regards the Anthropologists and when Human Body Lice moved into our clothing, see:

    “Reed and colleagues have also looked at the split between head and clothing lice for clues as to when humans began wearing clothes. They found that clothing lice diverged from head lice between 80,000 and 170,000 years ago, most likely at the earlier end of that range.

    This means humans were likely tinkering with clothing use before leaving Africa, Reed said.”

    https://www.livescience.com/41028-lice-reveal-clues-to-human-evolution.html

    And prior to these studies 40,000 years was the earliest based on bone sewing needles being found.

    See:

    https://watermark.silverchair.com/msq234.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAaIwggGeBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggGPMIIBiwIBADCCAYQGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMkONM4Vus6BHTOV3lAgEQgIIBVUuJN7Dc8MdEsfhByCFrY8qrRVBUTukYFcxaojpqh76MUrOEzDaLFtaqvgXP8wqFrtsmsRQpAtkUV9uyryXMwvPx2jqFzkUyZ2yrnt0DD8YulOXiQwdq7b2_LNdHVvRIMD8DQpZ-JUZFhceeN_YZ8TNBUexg_wTKA9OyCM-6530Imf9QSkR_AViTEoDbU_QN6Rr8ob6ZKeSaLGI_xCLywF6pjEnw1c1zMgqS8xA9-nMfNYkaGbeBnPIjhLHrhQ6h0h_n2KF7DqoZ3TQ9Ukk4uDnPSPB5fVV1M33Spvkib-c4nNMGdu_RY8owCccSmh65CopRZFmf7qOkSEqFhnDpc7o2NLyBNXHJIykRIiY9gilibuKxubXnP30fmJBOgevlraJ8n__b71TVYjb_BD1LmacqpQE2S-VRWd6r24_Sgr7vi2ptPl341IyPS8xSyYRmGEjYZv79

    If you are off by a factor of two and 40,000 years on clothing based on the archaeological record vice genetic data.

    Being off as much regards when civilization and sedentary agriculture kicked off is a stronger possibility than a 500(+) year stable and prosperous hunter-gatherers society,

  • Trent Telenko

    Regards the Anthropologists and when Human Body Lice moved into our clothing, see:

    “Reed and colleagues have also looked at the split between head and clothing lice for clues as to when humans began wearing clothes. They found that clothing lice diverged from head lice between 80,000 and 170,000 years ago, most likely at the earlier end of that range.

    This means humans were likely tinkering with clothing use before leaving Africa, Reed said.”

    https://www.livescience.com/41028-lice-reveal-clues-to-human-evolution.html

    And prior to these studies 40,000 years was the earliest based on bone sewing needles being found.

    See:

    https://watermark.silverchair.com/msq234.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAaIwggGeBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggGPMIIBiwIBADCCAYQGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMkONM4Vus6BHTOV3lAgEQgIIBVUuJN7Dc8MdEsfhByCFrY8qrRVBUTukYFcxaojpqh76MUrOEzDaLFtaqvgXP8wqFrtsmsRQpAtkUV9uyryXMwvPx2jqFzkUyZ2yrnt0DD8YulOXiQwdq7b2_LNdHVvRIMD8DQpZ-JUZFhceeN_YZ8TNBUexg_wTKA9OyCM-6530Imf9QSkR_AViTEoDbU_QN6Rr8ob6ZKeSaLGI_xCLywF6pjEnw1c1zMgqS8xA9-nMfNYkaGbeBnPIjhLHrhQ6h0h_n2KF7DqoZ3TQ9Ukk4uDnPSPB5fVV1M33Spvkib-c4nNMGdu_RY8owCccSmh65CopRZFmf7qOkSEqFhnDpc7o2NLyBNXHJIykRIiY9gilibuKxubXnP30fmJBOgevlraJ8n__b71TVYjb_BD1LmacqpQE2S-VRWd6r24_Sgr7vi2ptPl341IyPS8xSyYRmGEjYZv79

    If you are off by a factor of two and 40,000 years on clothing based on the archaeological record vice genetic data.

    Being off as much regards when civilization and sedentary agriculture kicked off is a stronger possibility than a 500(+) year stable and prosperous hunter-gatherers society,

  • C.r. Sant

    You are right about ancient civilisations and their achievements. The genetic development of the cereals and the parthenocarpic fig are two examples that go way back in time. Plus astronomical advances. These do not occur abruptly, there is a shallow learning curve for those. However I put the brakes on Gobleki Tepe dating. The more time passes the more suspicious I get on that one. The hunter-gatherer was a nomad and remains so to this day. He does not build cities.

    The site was buried. So was the Rig of Brogdar – with ocean bottom silts with organic material; and so were other places, dated to about 2300bce (recall Dodwell and earth tilt and more). So organic debris from ocean/sea bottom washed on land may be millennia older. Then take a look a link below. Similarities from wildly disparate times or mistaken dating? https://www.ancient-code.com/the-mystery-handbag-of-the-gods-depicted-in-sumer-america-and-gobekli-tepe/

  • C.r. Sant

    You are right about ancient civilisations and their achievements. The genetic development of the cereals and the parthenocarpic fig are two examples that go way back in time. Plus astronomical advances. These do not occur abruptly, there is a shallow learning curve for those. However I put the brakes on Gobleki Tepe dating. The more time passes the more suspicious I get on that one. The hunter-gatherer was a nomad and remains so to this day. He does not build cities.

    The site was buried. So was the Rig of Brogdar – with ocean bottom silts with organic material; and so were other places, dated to about 2300bce (recall Dodwell and earth tilt and more). So organic debris from ocean/sea bottom washed on land may be millennia older. Then take a look a link below. Similarities from wildly disparate times or mistaken dating? https://www.ancient-code.com/the-mystery-handbag-of-the-gods-depicted-in-sumer-america-and-gobekli-tepe/

  • Trent Telenko

    Regards the domestication of the fig fruit, humm…

    http://science.sciencemag.org/content/312/5778/1372.full?rss=1

    Abstract
    It is generally accepted that the fig tree was domesticated in the Near East some 6500 years ago. Here we report the discovery of nine carbonized fig fruits and hundreds of drupelets stored in Gilgal I, an early Neolithic village, located in the Lower Jordan Valley, which dates to 11,400 to 11,200 years ago. We suggest that these edible fruits were gathered from parthenocarpic trees grown from intentionally planted branches. Hence, fig trees could have been the first domesticated plant of the Neolithic Revolution, which preceded cereal domestication by about a thousand years.

    If the genetics say human kind was harvesting figs 11,200 years ago in a domesticated/settled manner.

    The development of sedentary life had to pre-date it.

  • Trent Telenko

    Regards the domestication of the fig fruit, humm…

    http://science.sciencemag.org/content/312/5778/1372.full?rss=1

    Abstract
    It is generally accepted that the fig tree was domesticated in the Near East some 6500 years ago. Here we report the discovery of nine carbonized fig fruits and hundreds of drupelets stored in Gilgal I, an early Neolithic village, located in the Lower Jordan Valley, which dates to 11,400 to 11,200 years ago. We suggest that these edible fruits were gathered from parthenocarpic trees grown from intentionally planted branches. Hence, fig trees could have been the first domesticated plant of the Neolithic Revolution, which preceded cereal domestication by about a thousand years.

    If the genetics say human kind was harvesting figs 11,200 years ago in a domesticated/settled manner.

    The development of sedentary life had to pre-date it.

  • Trent Telenko

    Another Hummm….

    Searching with this phrase on the internet – “The genetic development of the cereals and the parthenocarpic fig”

    Turned up this book “People, Plants & Genes: The Story of Crops and Humanity” By Denis J Murphy with this text (at link)

    https://books.google.com/books?id=ljwTDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=The+genetic+development+of+the+cereals+and+the+parthenocarpic+fig&source=bl&ots=7TmDyWNSd5&sig=CkfoZMcRTnf-1nlO4PmAi-sqy64&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitopWs9bTYAhXF44MKHZ4bDvMQ6AEIRDAF#v=onepage&q=The%20genetic%20development%20of%20the%20cereals%20and%20the%20parthenocarpic%20fig&f=false

  • Trent Telenko

    Another Hummm….

    Searching with this phrase on the internet – “The genetic development of the cereals and the parthenocarpic fig”

    Turned up this book “People, Plants & Genes: The Story of Crops and Humanity” By Denis J Murphy with this text (at link)

    https://books.google.com/books?id=ljwTDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=The+genetic+development+of+the+cereals+and+the+parthenocarpic+fig&source=bl&ots=7TmDyWNSd5&sig=CkfoZMcRTnf-1nlO4PmAi-sqy64&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitopWs9bTYAhXF44MKHZ4bDvMQ6AEIRDAF#v=onepage&q=The%20genetic%20development%20of%20the%20cereals%20and%20the%20parthenocarpic%20fig&f=false

  • Trent Telenko
  • Trent Telenko
  • C.r. Sant

    From the paper in link, in the introduction: “This backfilling poses severe problems for the dating of this layer using the radiocarbon method, as organic remains from the fill-sediments could be older or younger than the enclosures, with younger samples becoming deposited at lower depths, thus producing an inverse stratigraphy.” The inverse, ie older sample deposited at lower depts. There is, as elsewhere, possibility of introduced ancient material in debris, including during it building. The question of date with C14 remains.

    Searching about for clues, I came across something that was not available four years ago. These are exemplars of ‘two headed, two breasted’ figurines. See links below:
    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/527624912574625773/
    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/527624912572119416/
    There are many more. These in a later more refined form were a curiosity I followed for many years. They represent the life cycle of the cereals in metaphor, making it certain cereal cultivation was well known. One is from nearby, Catal Hoyuk, so the lifestyle of the region -Anatolia- is well known, and is similar all over the near east, the Med, and further north-west. (I researched that matter; you won’t find similar anywhere else; its here: https://melitamegalithic.wordpress.com/2017/04/24/the-two-queens/ ). All sites represented their staple food source in their art (same as we do to this day although too obfuscated to notice or realise – See also this site (mine also): https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QmlXVE

    Gobleki Tepe represents a well established, well fed, society. Yet contrary to all surroundings, it represents a major enigma and anomaly culture-wise.

  • C.r. Sant

    From the paper in link, in the introduction: “This backfilling poses severe problems for the dating of this layer using the radiocarbon method, as organic remains from the fill-sediments could be older or younger than the enclosures, with younger samples becoming deposited at lower depths, thus producing an inverse stratigraphy.” The inverse, ie older sample deposited at lower depts. There is, as elsewhere, possibility of introduced ancient material in debris, including during it building. The question of date with C14 remains.

    Searching about for clues, I came across something that was not available four years ago. These are exemplars of ‘two headed, two breasted’ figurines. See links below:
    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/527624912574625773/
    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/527624912572119416/
    There are many more. These in a later more refined form were a curiosity I followed for many years. They represent the life cycle of the cereals in metaphor, making it certain cereal cultivation was well known. One is from nearby, Catal Hoyuk, so the lifestyle of the region -Anatolia- is well known, and is similar all over the near east, the Med, and further north-west. (I researched that matter; you won’t find similar anywhere else; its here: https://melitamegalithic.wordpress.com/2017/04/24/the-two-queens/ ). All sites represented their staple food source in their art (same as we do to this day although too obfuscated to notice or realise – See also this site (mine also): https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QmlXVE

    Gobleki Tepe represents a well established, well fed, society. Yet contrary to all surroundings, it represents a major enigma and anomaly culture-wise.

  • Trent Telenko

    >>Gobleki Tepe represents a well established, well fed, society. Yet contrary to all surroundings, it represents a major enigma and anomaly culture-wise.

    Consider with the above that you just described what a early 19th Century Europe Colony in Africa or New Guinea would look like if it got buried by the colonists and was rediscovered by 14,000 AD archaeologist.

  • Trent Telenko

    >>Gobleki Tepe represents a well established, well fed, society. Yet contrary to all surroundings, it represents a major enigma and anomaly culture-wise.

    Consider with the above that you just described what a early 19th Century Europe Colony in Africa or New Guinea would look like if it got buried by the colonists and was rediscovered by 14,000 AD archaeologist.

  • C.r. Sant

    Adding some: The abrupt burying of such sites is not unique, leading to the matter of global cataclysms in the early Holocene. Ring of Brogdar was totally buried by sea bottom silt. The link below is of another such figurine, but from Ecuador. ???
    file:///C:/Users/c%20r%20sant/Desktop/B1/(8)%20Pinterestecuador.html

  • C.r. Sant

    Adding some: The abrupt burying of such sites is not unique, leading to the matter of global cataclysms in the early Holocene. Ring of Brogdar was totally buried by sea bottom silt. The link below is of another such figurine, but from Ecuador. ???
    file:///C:/Users/c%20r%20sant/Desktop/B1/(8)%20Pinterestecuador.html

  • C.r. Sant

    We can take as example – really as one example- what we are doing today with finds from the past. But how many times do we get it all wrong? Unless there is evidence that can be tied down to some fact, preferably several corroborating, one is still in the realm of speculation.

  • Trent Telenko

    C.R. Sant

    Your link appears to be from your computer’s C: Drive.

    Were you trying to post a photo?

  • C.r. Sant

    We can take as example – really as one example- what we are doing today with finds from the past. But how many times do we get it all wrong? Unless there is evidence that can be tied down to some fact, preferably several corroborating, one is still in the realm of speculation.

  • Trent Telenko

    C.R. Sant

    Your link appears to be from your computer’s C: Drive.

    Were you trying to post a photo?

  • SteveGinGTO

    “…facile dismissal of civilization earlier than Göbekli Tepe.” Yep, Science by, “Don’t go there.”

    EVERY step of the way in modern science is “That can’t be true because it is beyond what we accept right now.”

    They want to do science by micro-baby-steps.

    I think it was Thomas Kuhn himself who noted that there is science by chaos and science by paradigm. (Not his terms, but mine.) His great example was electricity. There were DECADES AND DECADES when the phenomena were observed, and different phenomena seemed to contradict each other in ways that made it hard for the researchers (including Ben Franklin, notably). IT WAS CHAOS. FINALLY, it began to come together into a gestalt, and they got a cohesive understanding of it. Afterwards was the “paradigm” – WHEN IT WAS SETTLED SCIENCE. After that, everything was looked at from within the paradigm. It was the “filling in the gaps” period.

    The great majority off scientists are “filling in the gaps” researchers – finding smaller and smaller niches to count more and more angels on pinheads. (By pinheads?)

    I’ve noticed with the YDB skeptics that some of them don’t do much “out there” science”. They evidently aren’t capable of too much. One of them shows up as skeptical about more than just the YDB. He jumps all over old whatshisname with the Clovis Overkill.

    Now THAT one I am glad he does, because the idea is patently stupid. But he bit off more than he can chew on the YDB, because he’s got some SERIOUS scientists he’s mocking and sabotaging.

    GRRRR…

  • SteveGinGTO

    “…facile dismissal of civilization earlier than Göbekli Tepe.” Yep, Science by, “Don’t go there.”

    EVERY step of the way in modern science is “That can’t be true because it is beyond what we accept right now.”

    They want to do science by micro-baby-steps.

    I think it was Thomas Kuhn himself who noted that there is science by chaos and science by paradigm. (Not his terms, but mine.) His great example was electricity. There were DECADES AND DECADES when the phenomena were observed, and different phenomena seemed to contradict each other in ways that made it hard for the researchers (including Ben Franklin, notably). IT WAS CHAOS. FINALLY, it began to come together into a gestalt, and they got a cohesive understanding of it. Afterwards was the “paradigm” – WHEN IT WAS SETTLED SCIENCE. After that, everything was looked at from within the paradigm. It was the “filling in the gaps” period.

    The great majority off scientists are “filling in the gaps” researchers – finding smaller and smaller niches to count more and more angels on pinheads. (By pinheads?)

    I’ve noticed with the YDB skeptics that some of them don’t do much “out there” science”. They evidently aren’t capable of too much. One of them shows up as skeptical about more than just the YDB. He jumps all over old whatshisname with the Clovis Overkill.

    Now THAT one I am glad he does, because the idea is patently stupid. But he bit off more than he can chew on the YDB, because he’s got some SERIOUS scientists he’s mocking and sabotaging.

    GRRRR…

  • Trent Telenko

    Speaking of hard Genetic Data changing what the Archaeologists postulate —

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5229261/Ancient-DNA-rewrites-American-history.html

    The DNA of a six-week-old Native American infant who died 11,500 years ago has rewritten the history of the Americas.

    The young girl’s genes reveal the first humans arrived on the continent 25,000 years ago – much earlier than some studies claim – before splitting into three Native American groups.

    This is the first time that direct genetic traces of the earliest Native Americans have been identified.

    The girl belonged to a previously unknown population of ancient people in North America known as the ‘Ancient Beringians.’

    This small Native American group resided in Alaska and died out around 6,000 years ago, researchers claim.

    This of course assumes that there wasn’t an earlier people who got totally wiped out by the Cosmic Tusk/YDBI.

  • Trent Telenko

    Speaking of hard Genetic Data changing what the Archaeologists postulate —

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5229261/Ancient-DNA-rewrites-American-history.html

    The DNA of a six-week-old Native American infant who died 11,500 years ago has rewritten the history of the Americas.

    The young girl’s genes reveal the first humans arrived on the continent 25,000 years ago – much earlier than some studies claim – before splitting into three Native American groups.

    This is the first time that direct genetic traces of the earliest Native Americans have been identified.

    The girl belonged to a previously unknown population of ancient people in North America known as the ‘Ancient Beringians.’

    This small Native American group resided in Alaska and died out around 6,000 years ago, researchers claim.

    This of course assumes that there wasn’t an earlier people who got totally wiped out by the Cosmic Tusk/YDBI.

  • C.r. Sant

    Quote extract: “Native American group resided in Alaska and died out around 6,000 years ago”. Might that be nearer to ~3550bce. My research tells that at that time there was an abrupt obliquity change to a narrower tilt, some ~14deg. Meaning abrupt and very severe conditions at high latitudes. (proxy evidence here: https://melitamegalithic.wordpress.com/2017/12/15/comparing-proxies/ )

  • C.r. Sant

    Quote extract: “Native American group resided in Alaska and died out around 6,000 years ago”. Might that be nearer to ~3550bce. My research tells that at that time there was an abrupt obliquity change to a narrower tilt, some ~14deg. Meaning abrupt and very severe conditions at high latitudes. (proxy evidence here: https://melitamegalithic.wordpress.com/2017/12/15/comparing-proxies/ )