George, why is the comment form working here but not on the Atlantis post?
At first look perhaps this fellow has found impact glass and related deposit, but without a lab check there is no way of knowing with any certainty if so, or if it is from the YD event, a different event, or simply from a later fire.
(Dennis, do you finally understand that there were more impacts than the one at the YD? Do you know what desert varnish is?)
Chicken,
by Wikipedia, “Gomphotheres also survived in Mexico and Central America until the end of the Pleistocene.” The species was alive in S America even later, “dated to 6,060 BP in the Valle del Magdalena, Colombia.” These facts falsify what is stated on the URL you provide, that these animals became extinct 30,000 yrs ago.
Pierson, while your English is far better than my Portugese, I can not understand your Protuglish. If you use Portugese, we could cut and paste it into an onlinwe translator.
While the chips in the video look like impact glass, glasses from fires also occur, so without laboratory confirmation one can not assert anything.
A site with gomphotheres and clovis points is given in Adrienne Mayor’s book on “Fossil Legends” of the First Americans, which the author of this article was unaware of.
If you want another YD layer site, take a look at Taima Taima
George, I don’t mean to nag, but the Atlantis comment section is still not working.
My thinking is that documenting that particular impact mega-tsunami is what will finally produce sufficient funds for dealing with the impact hazard, as it was both recent and massive.
The YD impacts appear to be still too remote in time, and bringing the votes from the southeast US in is important here.
Yes many palaeolagoons may be associated with YD. In the same area where I began my field studies on the YD possible impact craters, many relatives of elephants and hippopotamuses have been found. Unfortunately there is no one looking for the black matter or for some things like.
That is the question: this is or this is not? Thus started the field research, with questions, the answers come with time. Others call it state of the art…
I hate to disappoint everyone, but since Ontario was well under the ice sheet, unless there was an impact nearby, then even with Boslough’s model, it could not have penetrated.
My guess right now is that we are looking here at fulgerite from a lightning strike, but who knows?
I still guess that the Lloydminster structure is from the YD, but once again, who knows?
The latest information shows that there were several human migration in Northeast Brazil. This region received human populations with different cultural and physical characteristics from very remote times of the Pleistocene (> 50,000 years), late Pleistocene and throughout the Holocene, including the colonial period, with the arrival of Europeans and Africans.
Dating methods to accomplish the geology or archeology are always subject to errors of all sorts.
I largely agree that the earth has undergone meteoric events during that period.
The Panela crater appears to have formed at least 3200 years ago, the Rio Cuarto between 4,000 and 6,000 years, others in the region of Serra da Capivara, among others, seem to have formed 12,900 years ago, others may be older. Each case is unique.
It makes me think that another cosmic event could happen at any time in a year or ten years in a century or a millennium.
The event of the end of the Pleistocene climate in March seems a mind to this process, whatever it was the origin of this change, among other things, and mass extinction and the great migrations.
Remember that it is vary common to find large fossils of megafauna contcentration in these paleolagoas with dating around 10,000 years and to hypothesize that these animals were poisoning by the cyanide from the meteoritic process, they did not die of thirst as imagined by many Archaeologists or Paleontologists.
I am very glad to hear that the Taima-Taima site is being worked on.
IN Brazil you should have a very early (ca 45,000?) C mt DNA group crossing Berringia, with B and D mt DNA crossing the Pacific also very early.
There was another group (mt uncatalogued yet due to extinction) crossing from the Sahara River region of Africa to Pedra Furada ca. 35,000 BCE.
Megagauna would wallow is lagoongs such as teh Carloina Bays for cooling and insect reduction. These were a good place to hunt them.
You are absolutely right that each impact case is unique, and it shows in the quality of your work. Many researchers have made the mistake of conflating evidence from separate impacts.
The impact hazard appears to be about 10 times worse than the NASA estimates. But now with improved NEO surveys we have a better chance than before.
E.P., your early dates (ca 45,000, etc) are not mentioned on Wikipedia, I think. Any reference where to find those mtDNA results would be very welcome (not in your book, I think).
Are dates these official/ published?
Not that I have even the tiniest doubt: Michael Morwood has published dates of 800,000, and now even 1,000,000 BP, for Flores Island lithic technologies. These dates put even the earliest KNOWN American dates in the shadows. See here, e.g.: http://www.unav.es/cryf/english/floresiensis.html
Personally, I would not be amazed to find such extremely early dates on the two New World continents, except for one cautionary remark, made to me by Michael Payne, Sidney, years ago:
When I pointed out to him Morwood’s early dates for Flores finds, his immediate reaction was: Those early people must have been wiped out by the Australasian Tektite Strewn Field impact, dated to 720,000 (Brunhes-Matuyama).
As a result of that ET impact, which destroyed (almost) all life in SE Asia, no further expansion likely took place by those early navigators who made it to Flores across deep water and left advanced stone tools.
No doubt they did populate New Guinea and Australia at those early times (far earlier than anything accepted by today’s Aussie anthropologists). Those lands were outside the Australasian Strewn Field, which is very precisely known.
The notion that Aboriginal Aussie ancestors are separated from modern H. sapiens by only a few tens of thousands of years must be thoroughly rejected.
BTW, Michael Payne’s reaction was mistaken of course, as H. floresiensis survived, in an island dwarfed version. No doubt today’s pygmies on the island are also descendants, my guess still awaiting DNA confirmation.
E.P., your early dates (ca 45,000, etc) are not mentioned on Wikipedia, I think. Any reference where to find those mtDNA results would be very welcome (not in your book, I think).
Are these dates official/ published?
Not that I have even the tiniest doubt: Michael Morwood has published dates of 800,000, and now even 1,000,000 BP, for Flores Island lithic technologies. These dates put even the earliest KNOWN American dates in the shadows. See here, e.g.: http://www.unav.es/cryf/english/floresiensis.html
Personally, I would not be amazed to find such extremely early dates on the two New World continents, except for one cautionary remark, made to me by Michael Payne, Sydney, years ago:
When I pointed out to him Morwood’s early dates for Flores finds, his immediate reaction was: Those early people must have been wiped out by the Australasian Tektite Strewn Field impact, dated to 720,000 (Brunhes-Matuyama).
As a result of that ET impact, which destroyed (almost) all life in SE Asia, no further expansion likely took place by those early navigators who made it to Flores across deep water and left advanced stone tools.
No doubt they did populate New Guinea and Australia at those early times (far earlier than anything accepted by today’s Aussie anthropologists). Those lands were outside the Australasian Strewn Field, which is very precisely known.
The notion that Aboriginal Aussie ancestors are separated from modern H. sapiens by only a few tens of thousands of years must be thoroughly rejected.
BTW, Michael Payne’s reaction was mistaken of course, as H. floresiensis survived, in an island dwarfed version. No doubt today’s pygmies on the island are also descendants, my guess still awaiting DNA confirmation.
The impact hazard appears to be from various events. They can occur at the same time but in different local time (LT), even in secular or millennial period. But I suspect that at various events the meteoroids came from the southern hemisphere, coming from near the south pole. Perhaps from same stream of Phaeton´s fragments.
Particularly caught my attention, the periods presented on the website of Michael Davias, both for the period of 20,000 years and 50,000 years ago to the most distant period of 400,000 years, the temperature curves appear to show cyclical encounters with Earth, they do not seem solar cycles. An exploratory fractal wavelets study of these periods might reveal the encounters frequencies in time. http://www.perigeezero.org/treatise/timeline/index.html
The shorter and recent cycles seem consistent with what I have found. Although statistically it is still difficult to relate them properly!
Would all the Phaeton´s fragments stream have been cleaned in recent millennia, are still active?
‘@ E.P., is it conceivable that N or S American human presence at dates much earlier than 45,000 may be discovered? I am thinking of Michael Morwood’s very early dates for Flores Island stone tools of 800 Ka BP.
I apologize in advance. It is not my intention to participate in the debate on human presence in the Americas, this is not the focus of my research, only marginally. Even more of a subject still controversial and evolving. In any case, following some articles on this topic. Questions should be directed to the authors of articles and research.
George, why is the comment form working here but not on the Atlantis post?
At first look perhaps this fellow has found impact glass and related deposit, but without a lab check there is no way of knowing with any certainty if so, or if it is from the YD event, a different event, or simply from a later fire.
(Dennis, do you finally understand that there were more impacts than the one at the YD? Do you know what desert varnish is?)
http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44345
Hello
Hurt me nerves vagueness of the photographer, you can not see almost anything! A pity! I hope that new images show more and better later.
regards
pieson
Chicken,
by Wikipedia, “Gomphotheres also survived in Mexico and Central America until the end of the Pleistocene.” The species was alive in S America even later, “dated to 6,060 BP in the Valle del Magdalena, Colombia.” These facts falsify what is stated on the URL you provide, that these animals became extinct 30,000 yrs ago.
In point Of fact I have never said, nor even hinted, that I thought there was only one event.
And yes,I know what desert varnish is.
Pierson, while your English is far better than my Portugese, I can not understand your Protuglish. If you use Portugese, we could cut and paste it into an onlinwe translator.
While the chips in the video look like impact glass, glasses from fires also occur, so without laboratory confirmation one can not assert anything.
A site with gomphotheres and clovis points is given in Adrienne Mayor’s book on “Fossil Legends” of the First Americans, which the author of this article was unaware of.
If you want another YD layer site, take a look at Taima Taima
George, I don’t mean to nag, but the Atlantis comment section is still not working.
My thinking is that documenting that particular impact mega-tsunami is what will finally produce sufficient funds for dealing with the impact hazard, as it was both recent and massive.
The YD impacts appear to be still too remote in time, and bringing the votes from the southeast US in is important here.
Hello
Wonders of computing.
Yes many palaeolagoons may be associated with YD. In the same area where I began my field studies on the YD possible impact craters, many relatives of elephants and hippopotamuses have been found. Unfortunately there is no one looking for the black matter or for some things like.
http://www.arqueologiapiaui.com.br/noticias/piaui/259-maior-sitio-paleontologico-do-brasil-e-descoberto-no-piaui
That is the question: this is or this is not? Thus started the field research, with questions, the answers come with time. Others call it state of the art…
regards
pierson
I hate to disappoint everyone, but since Ontario was well under the ice sheet, unless there was an impact nearby, then even with Boslough’s model, it could not have penetrated.
My guess right now is that we are looking here at fulgerite from a lightning strike, but who knows?
I still guess that the Lloydminster structure is from the YD, but once again, who knows?
Pierson – take a look at this site:
http://www.palanth.com/legacy/index.php/topic,1202.0.html
I hope the upload link still works.
Hello EP
The latest information shows that there were several human migration in Northeast Brazil. This region received human populations with different cultural and physical characteristics from very remote times of the Pleistocene (> 50,000 years), late Pleistocene and throughout the Holocene, including the colonial period, with the arrival of Europeans and Africans.
Dating methods to accomplish the geology or archeology are always subject to errors of all sorts.
The Taima-taima region is certainly one of the places that deserve a new focus of research
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/taima-taima-text.html
I largely agree that the earth has undergone meteoric events during that period.
The Panela crater appears to have formed at least 3200 years ago, the Rio Cuarto between 4,000 and 6,000 years, others in the region of Serra da Capivara, among others, seem to have formed 12,900 years ago, others may be older. Each case is unique.
It makes me think that another cosmic event could happen at any time in a year or ten years in a century or a millennium.
The event of the end of the Pleistocene climate in March seems a mind to this process, whatever it was the origin of this change, among other things, and mass extinction and the great migrations.
Remember that it is vary common to find large fossils of megafauna contcentration in these paleolagoas with dating around 10,000 years and to hypothesize that these animals were poisoning by the cyanide from the meteoritic process, they did not die of thirst as imagined by many Archaeologists or Paleontologists.
regards
pierson
E.P.– Plato blog is repaired and comments are welcome.
Hola Pierson –
I am very glad to hear that the Taima-Taima site is being worked on.
IN Brazil you should have a very early (ca 45,000?) C mt DNA group crossing Berringia, with B and D mt DNA crossing the Pacific also very early.
There was another group (mt uncatalogued yet due to extinction) crossing from the Sahara River region of Africa to Pedra Furada ca. 35,000 BCE.
Megagauna would wallow is lagoongs such as teh Carloina Bays for cooling and insect reduction. These were a good place to hunt them.
You are absolutely right that each impact case is unique, and it shows in the quality of your work. Many researchers have made the mistake of conflating evidence from separate impacts.
The impact hazard appears to be about 10 times worse than the NASA estimates. But now with improved NEO surveys we have a better chance than before.
E.P., your early dates (ca 45,000, etc) are not mentioned on Wikipedia, I think. Any reference where to find those mtDNA results would be very welcome (not in your book, I think).
Are dates these official/ published?
Not that I have even the tiniest doubt: Michael Morwood has published dates of 800,000, and now even 1,000,000 BP, for Flores Island lithic technologies. These dates put even the earliest KNOWN American dates in the shadows. See here, e.g.:
http://www.unav.es/cryf/english/floresiensis.html
Personally, I would not be amazed to find such extremely early dates on the two New World continents, except for one cautionary remark, made to me by Michael Payne, Sidney, years ago:
When I pointed out to him Morwood’s early dates for Flores finds, his immediate reaction was: Those early people must have been wiped out by the Australasian Tektite Strewn Field impact, dated to 720,000 (Brunhes-Matuyama).
As a result of that ET impact, which destroyed (almost) all life in SE Asia, no further expansion likely took place by those early navigators who made it to Flores across deep water and left advanced stone tools.
No doubt they did populate New Guinea and Australia at those early times (far earlier than anything accepted by today’s Aussie anthropologists). Those lands were outside the Australasian Strewn Field, which is very precisely known.
The notion that Aboriginal Aussie ancestors are separated from modern H. sapiens by only a few tens of thousands of years must be thoroughly rejected.
BTW, Michael Payne’s reaction was mistaken of course, as H. floresiensis survived, in an island dwarfed version. No doubt today’s pygmies on the island are also descendants, my guess still awaiting DNA confirmation.
See Michael Payne’s website here:
http://users.tpg.com.au/users/mpaine/
E.P., your early dates (ca 45,000, etc) are not mentioned on Wikipedia, I think. Any reference where to find those mtDNA results would be very welcome (not in your book, I think).
Are these dates official/ published?
Not that I have even the tiniest doubt: Michael Morwood has published dates of 800,000, and now even 1,000,000 BP, for Flores Island lithic technologies. These dates put even the earliest KNOWN American dates in the shadows. See here, e.g.:
http://www.unav.es/cryf/english/floresiensis.html
Personally, I would not be amazed to find such extremely early dates on the two New World continents, except for one cautionary remark, made to me by Michael Payne, Sydney, years ago:
When I pointed out to him Morwood’s early dates for Flores finds, his immediate reaction was: Those early people must have been wiped out by the Australasian Tektite Strewn Field impact, dated to 720,000 (Brunhes-Matuyama).
As a result of that ET impact, which destroyed (almost) all life in SE Asia, no further expansion likely took place by those early navigators who made it to Flores across deep water and left advanced stone tools.
No doubt they did populate New Guinea and Australia at those early times (far earlier than anything accepted by today’s Aussie anthropologists). Those lands were outside the Australasian Strewn Field, which is very precisely known.
The notion that Aboriginal Aussie ancestors are separated from modern H. sapiens by only a few tens of thousands of years must be thoroughly rejected.
BTW, Michael Payne’s reaction was mistaken of course, as H. floresiensis survived, in an island dwarfed version. No doubt today’s pygmies on the island are also descendants, my guess still awaiting DNA confirmation.
See Michael Payne’s website here:
http://users.tpg.com.au/users/mpaine/
George Howard ,
E P Grondine , Bob Kobres , Dennis Cox
Hi EP
The impact hazard appears to be from various events. They can occur at the same time but in different local time (LT), even in secular or millennial period. But I suspect that at various events the meteoroids came from the southern hemisphere, coming from near the south pole. Perhaps from same stream of Phaeton´s fragments.
I put on my website an article I written in Portuguese in 2003; “Archaeoastronomy accessible to the northeasterners astronomers in Brazil”, see the attachment: ArqueoastroNE.
https://sites.google.com/site/cosmopier/rock-art-and-palaeolagoons
Particularly caught my attention, the periods presented on the website of Michael Davias, both for the period of 20,000 years and 50,000 years ago to the most distant period of 400,000 years, the temperature curves appear to show cyclical encounters with Earth, they do not seem solar cycles. An exploratory fractal wavelets study of these periods might reveal the encounters frequencies in time.
http://www.perigeezero.org/treatise/timeline/index.html
The shorter and recent cycles seem consistent with what I have found. Although statistically it is still difficult to relate them properly!
Would all the Phaeton´s fragments stream have been cleaned in recent millennia, are still active?
regards
pierson
‘@ E.P., is it conceivable that N or S American human presence at dates much earlier than 45,000 may be discovered? I am thinking of Michael Morwood’s very early dates for Flores Island stone tools of 800 Ka BP.
Hello for all
I apologize in advance. It is not my intention to participate in the debate on human presence in the Americas, this is not the focus of my research, only marginally. Even more of a subject still controversial and evolving. In any case, following some articles on this topic. Questions should be directed to the authors of articles and research.
http://www.fumdham.org.br/fumdhamentos7/artigos/14%20Silvia%20Gonzalez.pdf
http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/chapter54/text-PedraFurada/text-PedraFurada.htm
http://api.ning.com/files/7I04rLw8A5ZVg*qxJxqD5cNv39ZLFg9ptst711OOy*lq9UiJGDUGvx0WJuX7b34Wvy6jSgdfxoB37dgFtH8J9yi6mfR0z4Dn/Meltzer_1994.pdf
regards
pierson
Mysterious Black Mats on Earth Not From Outer Space: