Younger Dryas Boundary identified in Chile


Paleomagnetism and Mineralogy of Unusual Silicate Glasses and Baked Soils on the Surface of the Atacama Desert of Northern Chile: A Major Airburst Impact ~12ka ago?.

Pierrick Roperch, CNRS, Paris Cedex 16, France [email protected] 

Abstract ID:


Abstract Body:

Unusual silicate glasses were found in northern Chile in one of the driest place on earth, the Atacama Desert. The scoria-type melted rocks are littered on the ground at several localities distributed along a longitudinal band of about 50km. The silicate glasses have a stable natural remanent magnetization carried by fine-grained magnetite and acquired during cooling. At one locality, fine-grained overbank sediments were heated to form a 10 to 20 cm-thick layer of brick-type samples. Magnetic experiments on oriented samples demonstrate that the baked clays record a thermoremanent magnetization acquired in situ above 600°C down to more than 10cm depth and cooled under a normal polarity geomagnetic field with a paleointensity of 40µT. In some samples of the silicate glass, large grains of iron sulphides (troilite) are found in the glass matrix with numerous droplets of native iron, iron sulphides and iron phosphides indicating high temperature and strong redox conditions during melting. The paleomagnetic record of the baked clays and the unusual mineralogy of the silicate glasses indicate a formation mainly by in situ high temperature radiation. Paleomagnetic experiments and chemical analyses indicate that the silicate glasses are not fulgurite type rocks due to lightning events, nor volcanic glasses or even metallurgical slags related to mining activity. The existence of a well-developped baked clay layer indicates that the silicate glasses are not impact-related ejectas. The field, paleomagnetic and mineralogical observations support evidence for a thermal event likely related to a major airburst. The youngest calibrated 14C age on a charcoal sample closely associated with the glass indicates that the thermal event occurred around 12 to 13 ka BP. The good conservation of the surface effects of this thermal event in the Atacama Desert could provide a good opportunity to further estimate the threats posed by large asteroid airbursts.

  • Steve Garcia

    CevinQ –

    So, like Atlantis, people are putting Aztlán in all sorts of places.

  • Thanks, CevinQ, the more seven stories the better. Do you recall where you learned that information? I’m always on the look out of more things to read. I’ve been thinking of posting the books that I have read, but haven’t had time to see how much space it would take up yet. Maybe that way someone could suggest some good reads that I have missed.

    Steve – Like I was saying about the mathematician, he really searched for the answer with wobbles and the slight eccentric orbit and more and I just can believe that would induce the mainstream every 40K year ice ages, they have to be caused by impacts in my mind. As to Greenland’s weather not being a representation of the world’s weather, I think the world before the 13KBP Event had very little Meridional Flow and was predominantly Zonal and after the sky cleared the global air patterns changed thus changing the Fertile Crescent into a desert as is repeatedly stated in the ancient text. I’ve always had problems swallowing the movement of ice on flat ground along with miles high of ice where I’m located (Yooper). I grew up around aircraft and a couple of miles up is A LOT OF ICE ! I don’t think it was nearly that thick. Then again “they” are pretty confident that the sea level rose 400′, that is a lot of water that covers 70% of the Earth… I’ll really go out on a limb, has anyone suggested that all five Great Lakes were formed at the same moment? Say if five people with five 12 gauge shot guns were to fire into say two to three inches of ice over a swampy peat ground, I would think there would be some interesting results. I’ll have to read the Gobekli Tepe paper you cite. It is on top of a hill, it must have been buried intentionally. Maybe they thought they angered the Gods. Yeah, they have the dates all different, I think they are talking about 12KBP as the starting point (I’ve been meaning to update my site, the chalk board is updated, but having trouble with lighting and photography.) which makes since cause that would be the time of the sky clearing a thousand years after the Event. No, I want to see the whole of the stones and could use non-copyrighted images, I like the two headed dragon on the Sun-Stone. I had to use a turn of the last century image for the book. Fifty Four and I can get around on a computer well enough.

  • Steve Garcia

    Bard: “I think the world before the 13KBP Event had very little Meridional Flow”

    Yeah, that is pretty obvious, though the climate guys miss that the entire flow had to be different, because th ice pack was farther south, affecting all sort of slows, to be different than now. What doofuses for not seeing that.

    Eve n NOW, the Atlantic meridional flow is not a CAUSE, but an end effect. They don’t understand that.

    Bard: “…after the sky cleared the global air patterns changed thus changing the Fertile Crescent into a desert as is repeatedly stated in the ancient text.”

    Yes, certainly. And I have been thinking for a long time that that was because the pole moved, from just east of Hudson Bay to its present location. Latitude lines shifted, with the new rotation. I can’t prove any of that quite yet, but I am working on it. The new roation is why the wind patterns changed. IMO.

    Bard: “I’ve always had problems swallowing the movement of ice on flat ground along with miles high of ice where I’m located (Yooper).”

    No shit, Sherlock. I’ve harped on that one a lot here. Ice sheets do NOT move like glaciers. Glaciers are gravity driven mofos. DOWN steep slopes. Take the steep slopes out of it, and ice CAN NOT F-ING MOVE. It will just sit there, forever, or until it freaking melts. You, up in the UP, put some ice down on a flat place somewhere, and see where it goes by springtime. You and I both know it isn’t going to move ANYWHERE. How these ivory tower shlamazels can think ice moves over flat ground I have NO idea. No engineer type would ever accept that idea.

    Bard: “I don’t think it was nearly that thick.”

    So many people believe that it was 2 or 5 miles thick – ALL OVER CANADA. Total CRAP. It was about 2 km thick AT ITS MAXIMUM POINT, which was just to the east of Hudson Bay. It’s thickness diminished the farther it got from that point. In Michigan, where the impact seems to maybe have hit, the ice was certainly less than 1 km, and most likely 300-400 meters thick at the point of impact. WAAAAAY different from what garbage they try to sell.

    That THINNER ice made it possible for the impact to blow away the ice and STILL excavate terra firma and send it to the east coast – and perhaps some also to Australia (per Harris and Davias).

    Bard: “Then again “they” are pretty confident that the sea level rose 400′, that is a lot of water that covers 70% of the Earth…”

    That one I am ambiguous about. The graphs I have found don’t give enough detail. There are so many WAYS that they measure that, and ALL of them are proxies. ALWAYS BE SUSPICIOUS OF CLAIMED PROXIES – Proxies are based on VERY simplistic thinking, and the real world isn’t so simplistic. THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS. And Occam’s Razor is full of s**t.

    Bard: “I’ll have to read the Gobekli Tepe paper you cite. It is on top of a hill, it must have been buried intentionally.”

    I was not saying what I said because I am certain. I said it partially because they f-ing jump to conclusions so much that I have to almost automatically disrespect them – as a first option, first reaction. And also, I haven’t seen ANYTHING that addresses the possibility of a natural burying, even to show why it could not be the case. Any paper that doesn’t consider the OTHER possibilities is a POOR PAPER. And if not intentional, then the next possibility is a natural burying. Also, I know that MANY loess formations ARE on the tops of hills. Witness the Deccan Traps!

    Bard: “Maybe they thought they angered the Gods.”

    It would do you well to get it out of your head that the arkies and their mumbo jumbo projections about cults and religions and ceremonies in the ancient cultures are real. BE SKEPTICAL OF THAT PROJECTION. It had its birth in the times in the 1700s and 1800s when the rich, white European Christians who started archaeology were certain that they were the apex of all human history, and that human history was a SINGLE, ONE-TIME line of ascent, from jungle bunnies to wonderful WHITE MEN, masters of all they surveyed. (The Out-of-Africa meme is a late part of that… AND IS WRONG. Out-of-Africa basically that, “Black men were early and stupid, and – as man got whiter, man got smarter and more superior.” NASTY RACISM, there.)
    Bard: “they are talking about 12KBP as the starting point… which makes since [sic] ’cause that would be the time of the sky clearing a thousand years after the Event.”

    Now that Gobekli Tepe is proven to be OLDER THAN PLATO’S ATLANTIS, all of that single line history is CRAP. And, being crap, all bets are off, as to their interpretation of human history. “We are past the looking glass, people”.

    Hahahaha . . . Yes, and that is hilarious TO ME, because I have SUCH a take on the sky clearing after 1300 years thing, that you won’t believe… Not gonna tell you now, though… LOL

    Bard: “Fifty four”

    NO idea what that means.

    (The interface here sucks sometimes, and I HOPE that this comes out linearly… But I suspect it doesn’t…)

  • jim coyle

    Steve; It sure seems like all the myths, stories, legends etc. wind up happening or ending around YD. As to the glaciers erasing all previous signs of any possible earlier histories, I believe it’s all unfortunately tumbled into the glacial tills and moraines of the ice sheets. BUT, as you have postulated, if the ice doesn’t move then any evidence of man histories is still out there crushed and maybe washed to different locations by melt waters but still out there to be found. Another thought that crossed my early morning pre coffee mind is that “primitive” peoples had no written language. I believe most did but we are not able to see it as writing. In the future so arkie will discover the remains of the library of congress or the Smithsonian and look at all the different writings and languages involved and think: “Why did they save all this cellulose with staining all over it?? It makes no sense.”

  • I suspect that the Meridional Flow patterns are progressively getting worse and that is why the Northern ice is melting. I bet if somehow a time-lapse movie were made of all the satellite images of weather patterns over the last fifty years that what I say is true. As to people not thinking, I find it hard to believe that so many people flatly discount that man could contribute to global warming when practically everything from coal to oil that we got out of the ground we burned and some at 40K feet. BTW, I noticed a cultural phenomena up here, people save up their broken X-Mas lights and then toss them on camp fires to see the pretty colors and for everyone to breath. When I nicely inquire about the habit they all look at me funny like I’m from a different planet.

    I’ve tried to believe in pole shifts and just can’t, there is just too much mass and inertia for me. I even read half a book on the subject and ended up giving it away.

    I’m with you on some of the things educated people come up with. I just love the one where the Clovis people ate all the large Bison, the mammoths, saber toothed lions (with 20 huge sharp claws and faster and bigger than we are.), and the other 30 different mega fauna. Maybe they all died of obesity or shipped off like in the WALL-E Pixar film where the people are so fat the live on recliners.

    You were implying that I was old and computer challenged that I couldn’t find images of the Sun Stone and others. I’m fifty four years old and can get around well enough in the net.

  • jim coyle

    Bard; You mentioned about wishing to have a library of catastrophist related reading. You’re in the right place! At the top right of the opening page in Bold print it says Key posts and pages. Second item in that list is a catastrophists bibliography. It has a lot of articles and papers on that subject. Mr. Thompson did a great job compiling all this info. Hopefully you find what you need there. You also might see if Mr. Thompson would let you add some of your work to the list for all to use.

  • CevinQ

    I read about the seven miwok chiefs in a very old book on Yosemite lore, that used to be online, but sadly is no longer.
    A friend of mine might have saved it, I’ll ask him.
    For the best online collection of California mythologies,
    Native American mythos in general

    And California

    Here is an interesting story from the Bodega Bay band of northern Miwok.
    Bodega Bay is 120 miles north of San Francisco.




    O’-ye the Coyote-man

    Chā’-kā the Tule-wren, a poor orphan boy

    Koo-loo’-pe the Humming-bird


    CHA’-KA the Tule-wren was a poor worthless boy. He had no father and no mother and went from house to house begging, and the people gave him food to eat. Nobody liked him, and finally they tired of feeding him. One day he told them that if they did not give him food he would shoot out the Sun. Then everybody laughed. Again he said he surely would shoot it out. They said, “Go ahead and shoot.”

    So he did; he sent his arrow right up into the Sun and let the light out and the whole world became dark. There was no Sun, no Moon, no Stars, no Fire-everything was dark. It was dark for years and years and the people could not see to find food, and everybody was starving.

    All this time O’-ye the Coyote-man was thinking how he could get the Sun and light back again. At length he saw just a little light a long way off. He sent Koo-loo’-pe the Humming-bird to steal it.

    Koo-loo’-pe set out on the long journey and finally came to the fire and stole a little piece and brought it back under his chin–you can see the blaze there to this day.
    When he was bringing it somebody chased him, but he was so small and flew so swiftly they could not see which way he went and could not catch him. So he escaped with the fire and brought it back to O’-ye the Coyote-man, and the people had light again.”

    The loss of the sun and darkness and cold is a very common theme among Californai mythos.

    There are parallel stories in many cultures around the world.

    Bard, are aware of B. Masse and B. Masse’ work on impact and ultra plinian erutions and mythologies of South American peoples?

    Here is link to my dropbox folder, there are two papers by masse, and a paper on indigenous Australian mythologies concerning impacts.

  • Jim – Thanks, but I’ve tried to go through that list and can’t seem to find a quick way to distinguish between papers and books. Great list, but I want only books. Not that I don’t read some of the papers. Here is a list that I’ve read that are most relevant to this group.

    Comet / Asteroid Impacts and Human Society : An Interdisciplinary Approach by Peter T. Bobrowski and Hans Rickman 2007
    Exodus to Arthur by Mike Baillie 2003
    New Light on the Black Death by Mike Baillie 2006
    The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes : Flood, Fire, Famine in the History of Civilization by Richard Firestone, Allen West, and Simon Warwick-Smith 2006
    Man and Impact in the Americas by E. P. Grondine 2005
    Hamlets Mill by De Santillaca 1969
    The Cosmic Serpent by Victor Clube and Bill Napier 1982
    The Cosmic Winter by Victor Clube and Bill Napier 1990
    Comets and the Origin of Life by Janaki and Chandra Wickramasinghe and William Napier 2010
    The Celtic Gods : Comets in Irish Mythology by Mike Baillie and Patrick McCafferty 2005
    Myth and Geology by L. Piccardi and W. B. Masse 2007
    Rain of Fire and Ice by John Lewis 1996
    The 2300 B.C. Event Vols. 1, 2, & 3 by M. M. Mandeckehr 2006
    Worlds in Collision by Immanuel Velikousky 1950
    Ragnarok : The Age of Fire and Gravel by Ignatius Donnelly 1882
    Atlantis the Antediluvian World by Ignatius Donnelly 1882
    The Comets of God New Scientific Evidence for God Recent Archeological, Geological and Astronomical Discoveries that Shine New Light on the Bible and Its Prophecies by Jeffrey Goodman 2011
    Comets, Their Origin, Nature, and History by H. W. Elson 1910
    The Mystery of Comets by Fred L. Whipple 1985
    Between the Planets by Fletcher G. Watson 1941
    Comet by Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan 1985

    The others are Myth, Pyramids, and scholarly cuneiform/hieroglyph religious books, plus… Mostly from the turn of the century before last.

  • Tom Holsinger

    I toured eastern Washington last summer having a grand vacation following the path of the Missoula Floods downriver, checking out the Scablands, loess hills, etc. Geololgists there have stated that they can see patterns of the same sorts of floods from prior ice sheets, not merely the most recent one. Their ability to differentiate between the last series of Missoula Floods and prior ones seems to peter out approximately 100,000 years ago.

  • Steve Garcia

    Bard: “I’ve tried to believe in pole shifts and just can’t, there is just too much mass and inertia for me.”

    Yeah, I am not trying to convince anyone of pole movements. I am mostly thinking out lloud here and hoping sometimes to get some feedback.

    But one of the things I DO point out sometimes is that large earthquakes are almost always touted as “slowing down the rotation of the Earth”. In order to slow or accelerate the Earth’s rotation – the whole thing, it seems – some lateral force must be applied. In a pole movement the old pole position must move southward along SOME meridian. (At the North pole ALL directions are south.) I don’t see why a southward pole movement is any different than a slowing or accelerating of the rotation; it is only in a different direction. I don’t see why the direction should make a difference. I just think that if earthquakes that are INTERNAL to the system – due to slippage on some fault lines – can somehow move the system they are inside of, then something from outside should also be able to move. In fact, I’d think an external force should be more likely, if the two forces are equal in magnitude. An internal force has to deal with equal and opposite force WITHIN the system, meaning that for every eastward force there must be a westward force. This is not true of an external force.

    Once the principle might be accepted, then it is only a matter of sizing up the force to see what force could move either the entire Earth or the lithosphere down to some shear plane. Of course, the mass of just the lithosphere is much smaller than that of the entire Earth. The shallower the shear plane, the less mass that needs to be moved.

    Certainly the mass is not the only factor. Friction is also present. And the Rheology of the plastic materials must also be taken into account.

    [Wiki] Rheology is the study of the flow of matter, primarily in a liquid state, but also as ‘soft solids’ or solids under conditions in which they respond with plastic flow rather than deforming elastically in response to an applied force.

    In spite of much research over many years, there is still a LOT that is not known about what is going on under our feet. So far, I am quite disappointed in the amount of solid knowledge about the mantle-lithosphere interface. Our “eyes” down there are still antiquated (IMO) methods that entail a WHOLE LOT of interpretation of just what readings mean.

    So far, I am thinking that the crust itself cannot move BY ITSELF. It is too thin and too flimsy. For it to move, it would simply crush itself against itself, folding and breaking. That is my take on that at this moment (meaning I expect my understanding to change).

    More likely is Han Kloosterman’s thinking that the crust must be carried by the lithosphere – that the shear plane will be down nearer the mantle. I resisted that, because it DOES mean moving more mass – and the mass is damned big enough already, even if it is only the crust. The rheology down deeper is better suited for slippage – though there is nothing simple or easy about figuring out how that can happen.

    Right now that is all a mental exercise, and no more. But I can see potential for slippage. And a good part of that possibility is just up-sizing the earthquake energy with a large enough impactor.

    One way I like to put it is like this sequence of questions:

    Q: If a PLANET, say, the size of Venus, hit the Earth, do you think it might make the Earth bump sideways?

    Q: If that planet hit it at a glancing blow, would it possibly make the Earth turn a bit? Maybe a LOT?

    Q: If we could shrink that planet to any size we want, for an experiment, do you think that there is a MINIMUM size for a planet for bumping or rotating the EARTH?

    Q: Would you agree that a very small planet or moon or asteroid might be TOO SMALL to affect the Earth in terms of rotating or bumping it?

    Q: Do you agree that a planet moving faster would be more likely to affect the Earth’s rotation (in some direction) than a same-size planet traveling slower?

    Q: Do you yourself have an idea of how BIG a planet would have to be to affect the Earth’s rotation? Would, for example, the asteroid Vesta be able to bump or rotate the Earth? In your opinion? As a guess?

    These are hoped to elicit an opinion that, “YES, something big enough CAN affect the Earth’s rotation in some direction or other.” THEN they can see that it isn’t THAT this might happen, it is just that they think minor bodies are too small or too slow. They will focus on the “too big” side of it, but that is okay. I think that once they answer yes to enough of those questions, we’ve got them where we want them – thinking that it is at least CONCEIVABLE – and that the real question is not IF, but HOW SMALL OR HOW BIG?.

    Until they get to that point, getting them to consider MORE about this is impossible. But if they DO get to that point, then THEY become part of the effort to figure it out.

    OBVIOUSLY a VERY LARGE planet can move the Earth or make its surface rotate. How deep the movement might go is another question. If Jupiter hit the Earth, the Earth would be TOAST. If Venus hit the Earth, the results would be catastrophic. If Mars hit the Earth, almost certainly it is big enough to cause a catastrophe. (…in the gray area now…) If Mercury hit the Earth, yes or no?

    Somewhere in there people will begin to say, “No. That body is too small.” Not everyone would choose the same dividing line. But if we continue to go with smaller and smaller bodies, eventually everyone will agree that THAT newly considered size is too small.

    To me, this is simply a problem/puzzle of picking out the right size ENGINE or MOTOR, with enough horsepower or torque. Apply enough torque, and the problem isn’t a puzzle anymore. It becomes simply an engineering problem of choosing the right motor for the job – i.e., the right sized body and the right speed.

    We ALL already KNOW that a big planet can do it – EVEN if we talk about rotating the whole SOLID body of the Earth. But can a comet? An asteroid? A small planet? And HOW small? And HOW slow?

    And when we ask them to NOT move or rotate the entire globe, but only the crust or lithosphere, obviously it would take less impact, less size, less speed.

    The real question, though, is: DID it actually happen?

    You think not. I think it is a tough sell, but that it MAY be possible. May have BEEN possible.

  • Steve – That was really good, you have obviously thought about it for some time. First thing that comes to mind is the most recent theory of the origin of the Moon, that would definitely change about every part of what the Earth was before. If one was to touch a spinning bowling ball as if it were a top on a point, yes it would change.
    Then I started getting into where the standard of “axis” would lie? With Plate Tectonics the point of reference would change and then the stars move in all kinds of directions and all confusion results. You’ve almost made a believer of me, but then again Dinosaurs and Pangaea are interesting and not all that relevant in my mind. I just don’t think the axis would move much at all for an impact that left us bipedal mammals alive.

  • Steve Garcia

    Bard – For right now, PLEASE – Don’t get me started on things forming in the solar system. I don’t have the energy. I covered that a LOT maybe 18-5 months ago (maybe starting with Chelyabinsk, which was my seed for that).

    Yes, I’ve put a LOT of thought into these things. Since the 1960s, in fact. But thanks to George here, much more in the last few years.

    But as far as axis stuff, yeah, a good subject. For example, ask yourself why after 4.6 billion years the Earth still would have a wobble – or have a magnetic pole that wanders all over. The uniformies all have their intra-planet memes about why those still exist, but don’t accept those just on their authority. If 4.6 billion years (1/3 the life of the UNIVERSE!) isn’t enough time, WTF is with THAT???

    Yeah, the stars moving all over. That’s a good part of it – and that DOES come from ancient accounts. WHY would any ancient culture make such a thing up? According to the arkies and astronomers, they wouldn’t even have f-ing know what such statements implied. In Ed Grondine’s book, one chapter is about the Mayas and a passage in the Chalam Balaam talks about the Milky Way “rising up”. If one chooses tone’s words of translation slightly different than the way the translators did, the meaning gets REALLY interesting. All sorts of mayhem and MANY deaths, and a mega-flood from the ocean (which one?), all the way into the central Yucatán region known as the Petén. Many, many deaths, and still the Mayan arkies (gringo ones for sure) for DECADES have wondered where all the people in the Mayan cities went to.

    SO MANY CLUES. So many that the arkies blow off. (Then we get to have THEM do the translations, too – aye, there’s a sure place to insert their modern beliefs and then be able to claim that it was the beliefs of the ancient peoples.)

    All one has to do is to accept the POSSIBILITY that catastrophes might have happened, and almost ALL of it then takes on a completely different coloring.

    Pangaea – you are correct. It isn’t directly relevant.

    Your last sentence. . .

    FYI, Clovis went extinct at the YD, in case you had maybe missed that. (The arkies always seem to.) And it took pretty much the entire Younger Dryas cold period for there to be humans in NA, based on the evidence at some of the YD impact sites. It IS possible for a big impact to affect SOME of the Earth and not all of it. (But the YD SEEMS to have wasted all the mammoths in Siberia, too – not just the ones in NA.)

  • Steve – It had crossed my mind when I thought up of the idea of using the Moon formation as an example, the little voice kept telling me “Don’t use that, accretion is involved, you’ll get Steve going again!” Yes, it seems a bit strange that the Earth is the only inner planet with a huge magnetic field. I had looked into the characteristics of the inner planets searching for the slightest clue into the unknown gravity question and then got lost in the bending of light and the seemingly instantaneousness of it and the speed of light being a boundary. Your on a monumental quest trying to figure out axial shifts of the Earth alright. The list of factors involved alone gives me a headache. Like, the inner crust must be bumpy which would really mess with the Reynolds Numbers of the unknown magma attune with tossing handfuls of ball bearings into spur gears. What you need is a bored gifted mathematician friend to even come up with a rough guess.

    Don’t you know of anyone from the continent USA that is scheduled for a visit? I could send them my book and they can hand it to you. If you liked his book you’ll love mine, it is packed full of stories like you mention. I don’t recall that part of the book, tell me more about the ‘Milky Way “rising up”‘, I’m not following you on that part. The ancient stories are riddled with phenomena in the sky and even *they* put together the causation and effect. They knew exactly where is came from, where it went, and the 3.3 year orbit.

    Yeah, I know, basically everything was killed in North America. The most plausible reason the survivors made it was they were small enough to get by on less food or smart enough to move South. I am constantly baffled by academia, the schooling must strip them of common sense and creativity or instill a concerted plan of misdirection. Like the newest post about the Bays… I say fish fins, at least the fish have brains unlike Hydrogen and maybe ESP to communicate with the fish in the other ponds to shape them into parabolas and orientate them to look like they originated from the Great Lakes.

  • To asteroid impacts and Holocene human society, see
    At present, 8500 BC until 3000 BC is analyzed in detail, which each cosmic meteor impact event given (in 3 papers, part 1 – 3) Until the years end, part for for 3000 BC to 1 AD will be published on this site. No other literature is more comprehenve and detailed on the subject. JS.

  • CevinQ


    Thanks for posting the link to those papers, fantastic work.

    There is work from the population genetics field that shows 13 of 17 sampled populations have minimum effective populations between 4.2 and 2.1 KYA.

    “The plots are consistent with patterns seen in the relative numbers of singletons, described above, in that the Saami and Palestinians show markedly different demographic histories compared with the rest, featuring very recent reductions, while the Turks and Greeks show evidence of general expansion, with increased growth rate around 14 KYA. A different pattern is seen in the remaining majority (13/17) of populations, which share remarkably similar histories featuring a minimum effective population size ~2.1–4.2 KYA (considering the 95% confidence intervals (CIs) reported in Supplementary Table 4), followed by expansion to the present.”

  • jim coyle

    Steve; I read somewhere that earth’s magnetic field is the result of the molten iron core and that the magnetic field holds the atmosphere in place. Mars Venus Mercury all have cooled to point their cores have solidified and their magnetic fields collapsed (Evaporated?)allowing their atmospheres to go off into space for the most part. I’m sure that in a couple of billion yrs. the earth will be a colder rock in space and we all will have gone somewhere else warmer for the duration. I would have to guess the crust down to the liquid core would be capable of moving under the right conditions and may still be moving today causing the magnetic pole to move. Inconsistencies in the thickness of the liquid core may also be responsible for the wobble. I would think that a direct hit would cause the crust in indent and expand outwards similar to stepping on a rubber ball. And conversely if the impact was a glancing blow I can see a wave effect (earthquake?) causing the crust to shear similar to one pulling a blister on their hands with magma being the fluid that fills the voids versus bodily serum in the blister. This doesn’t sound complete but that’s all I have for now.

  • CevinQ

    If an object hits the earth in a more or less vertical way, like most impacts, what happens depends on if it hits a continent or if it hits the ocean.

    If it hits on a continent, nearly all of the energy is reflected back towards space, in the form of ejecta, while if it hits oceanic crust the earth absorbs nearly all of the energy. And that energy is reflected around the core and refocused at an antipode, and will set a mantle plume in motion, thus causing a large igneous province eruption.
    The Deccan traps are the refocused energy from the Chixilub impact, and the Siberian traps are the antipodal hot spot from the impact that caused the Permian- Triassic event, which was a deep oceanic impact, as the crater has been long ago subducted.

  • Han Kloosterman

    Steve, your message dated 21 oct. 2015:

    “H.K. thinking that the shearplane will be down nearer the mantle”

    I never thought or said anything of the kind.

    Very obviously (to me) it is the interface between Mantle and liquid core, the uppermost LIQUID layer of that liquid core.
    And it is not MY idea, but Ting Ying Ma’s (adulterated by Hapgood) and Flodmark’s.

    To get Flodmark’s paper I went to Sweden, spent 2 weeks searching, and found it on my 14th day there, in the U. Library of Stockholm.

  • Hi,
    I’m new here and my main concern is the Carolina Bays impact. Searching for other causes one should first ask and then follow Ockham.
    [you should read Carl Sagan’s book Dragon in my garage]
    An impact on a massive plate will cause less damage (Manicougan Crater)than an impact on or next to the Mid Atlantic Ridge – a worldwide catastrophe must follow.
    Let me talk wildly about the CBs bolide.
    Let’s assume it was about 10 km diameter and on it’s five minutes way from Alaska to Carolina it splitted in two bigger parts and one smaller part. This part exploded somewhere above the fall-line and the fragments formed the CBs, some more small impact craters you can find about 150 km S and SE of Charleston (-400m) and (so I think) some bigger “craters” at 31°27’N 73°1’W(-5.300m)
    The two remaining touched down next (600km NE) to the Nares Abyssal Plain north of Puerto Rico. If so, both went through the here thin crust and opened the Mid Atlantic Ridge like a zipper. It was opened to the North as far as Island and far to the South. An about 15.000 km long chain of volcanoes formed within a few days and this was the begin of a rainy, dark and cold era all over the world.
    Global: The impulse of the impact make the earth tumbling (precession)-still visible today. Cold air from the polar region freeze moderate regions within hours (Mammouths ?)
    Local (SC and NC): Why there are earth-quakes in Carolina? Far and wide no plate-boundary to explain. After forming the CBs the meteorites run through and exploded in the bedrock forming bigger or smaller caves. Collapsing caves cause earthquakes. [source: for maps see

    There are more related subjects to discuss about:
    Was this impact the Dryas-Boundary-Event? I believe so.
    Was the Hudson Canyon (the Congo too) formed after this impact?
    How changed the coastline? A tsunami after the impact would have submerged the today-Carolina and wiped out the CBs. Therefor the East Coast must have subsided (for 250m ?) since the impact.
    Same for Florida. So one can find pollen in Florida and conclude: No tsunami – no impact.
    What about the ice-shield? I think it was build within a very short time (weeks ?)

    So – let’s call it a day.