Kerr Watch

Elapsed time since Richard Kerr failed to inform his Science readers of the confirmation of nanodiamonds at the YDB: 6 years, 4 months, and 7 days

Plato: A Man Before (and after) His Time

Atlantis (in Greek, Ἀτλαντὶς νῆσος, “island of Atlas“) is a legendary island first mentioned in Plato‘s dialogues Timaeus and Critias.

In Plato’s account, Atlantis was a naval power lying “in front of the Pillars of Hercules” that conquered many parts of Western Europe and Africa 9,000 years before the time of Solon, or approximately 9600 BC. After a failed attempt to invade Athens, Atlantis sank into the ocean “in a single day and night of misfortune”.

[See 12,974 Before Present]

Scholars dispute whether and how much Plato’s story or account was inspired by older traditions. Some scholars argue Plato drew upon memories of past events such as the Thera eruption or the Trojan War, while others insist that he took inspiration from contemporary events like the destruction of Helike in 373 BC[1] or the failed Athenian invasion of Sicily in 415–413 BC.

The possible existence of a genuine Atlantis was discussed throughout classical antiquity, but it was usually rejected and occasionally parodied by later authors. As Alan Cameron states: “It is only in modern times that people have taken the Atlantis story seriously; no one did so in antiquity”.[2] While little known during the Middle Ages[citation needed], the story of Atlantis was rediscovered by Humanists in the Early Modern period. Plato’s description inspired the utopian works of several Renaissance writers, like Francis Bacon‘s “New Atlantis“. Atlantis inspires today’s literature, from science fiction to comic books to films. Its name has become a byword for any and all supposed advanced prehistoric lost civilizations.

  • Hermann Burchard

    Ed seems to have had a stroke maybe about a year ago, or longer, and has slipped a word about it in his comments for a while (on your blog). I find his recovery of skills quite admirable.

  • Steve Garcia


    George, could you perhaps create a thread here for showing images of possible impacts?

    I have this one

    Location 19°27’N 102°04’W

    I read this as NOT a volcanic feature – even though it is ON a volcano. I base this on what I interpret as its interruption of the visible contours of the volcano’s western slope.

    For anyone who would point out that this is right smack in the middle of the Trans-Mexican Volcanic Belt, ye, I know. However, there is nothing that precludes impactors from landing in volcanic fields. An inquirer merely needs to use some judgment in distinguishing.

    In the selected image I intentionally left in a small Paricutín-type vocanic cone directly west. I think this shows that though there is similarity with the “crater”, it is only in its circularity. The small volcano is conical with a small circular mouth. The “crater”, if it is to be seen as a volcano, has a “mouth” that is nearly 90% of the diameter of the conical outer slope of the feature. This seems much more consistent with a crater than a volcano.

    In addition, the caldera of the “crater” is flat, like many craters are.
    I have this one

    If GE did not screw up the imaging, this shows clearly that the feature is a discontinuity vs the slope of the volcanic slope.

    Hopefully the images came out alright. If not, go to these URLs:

    This “crater” is about 1km in diameter. The Earth Impact Database has ones listed that are smaller. I notice that there is only ONE crater in their list in Mexico, and that is Chicxulub. Wow.

    In any event, this one certainly isn’t in their confirmed list. I wonder if they have a list of “definitely not” failed candidates. Anybody know?

  • Steve Garcia

    Crap! No images and messed up formatting. SORRY!

    I am batting like .100 or less on trying to insert images into comments around the web. This time it also screwed up the formatting of text. I have NO idea what I did wrong. I wish WordPress had formatting tools.. It really hinders me.

    Let me try one more time – just two images:

    …crossing my fingers…

  • Steve Garcia

    Failed again…

  • Steve Garcia

    Anyway, if that isn’t an impact crater, then what is?

    Also, George, I repeat my request:

    Can you make a thread for us to post links and/or images of features we think are craters?

  • Hello Steve

    Areas in the meanders of rivers, estuarine areas, or volcanic areas are the worst areas to a study of impact craters. The circular structure that you present is very suggestive. It seem too capricious to be just one caldera. A field survey may provide some clue.

    See on (any)googlemap screen in the corner right on up the icon link, just copy (the link) and paste in the text.,-102.064018&spn=0.101813,0.153637&t=h&z=13&vpsrc=6


  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi George, Hermann –

    Thanks for the compliment. It was very difficult to get to this point, and I have developed some pretty good coping mechanisms. For example, you want to have clear paths with nothing to stumble over, something to hold on to nearby, and a soft surface to land on.

    Yes, I had a pretty nasty stroke 5 years ago. Otherwise, “Man and Impact in the Americas” would have had larger type, more pictures, and read more smoothly. The ibook would be out now too, as well as my own blog.

    While I am better now, it still takes me quite a while to peck out these little notes.

  • Barry Weathersby

    Scrambled bones and giants… just saw a program re ancient Greece. About 500 BCE or so, the Greeks were finding fields of (fossilized) mammoth bones. Having no idea of what a mammoth might look like, they collected the bones, arranged them as a human skeleton might appear, and buried them in tombs. Later Greeks, finding these graves, assumed they were giants/gods. The skeletons, except for the skulls, were very human like but 3 or 4 times the size of humans.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Barry –

    You will undoubtedly enjoy Adriene Mayor’s books on Fossil Legends. I have not gone back to Plato to take a look at his use of them.

    But in the Americas there really existed a very tall people, known as Andaste. For their physical remains, read the standard text on the “Adena”, Dragoo’s “Mounds for the Dead”.

  • chicken little
  • chicken little
    something around 2800 years ago that killed all those people in a most bizarre way , yes by flooding a top of a mountain!

    I don’t think this is our event here . but whatever it was there is a huge events of about 2800 years ago that has never been explained ..

    but then again their is very little difference between 3200 and 2800 years ago and I doubt every form of all their dating system because not one has ever proved anything real yet. most those dating systems have
    somehow ‘proved’ every one of their most stupid and ignorant imaginings they have ever produced.

    2800 and 3200 is awfully close or at least close enough that until they start asking real questions and answering real questions I won’t believe any of their goofy timetables they use to create their indisputable theories.

  • Jonny

    Chicken, where did you get the information of 2800 years ago, and death by flooding, when the article you linked to mentions neither. This event occurred in the 9th century AD, not BC making it only 1200 years ago. 14C dating by Oxford University on the remains suggest a 850 +/- 30 AD date, and forensic analysis suggests they were not killed by flooding but rather from a sudden violent hail storm. Being in a mountain valley when it happened they would have had little shelter to escape it.

    Imagine being caught out in these events without shelter or protection and

  • chicken little

    well sorry Jonny dear . maybe I said it wrong. I sometime make my posts confusing because I think is shorthand sorry!

    let me try it this way because there was stuff you didn’t see or hear and missed completely and assumptions you made because you believed what he said.

    I am looking for the events of about 2800 and 3200 years ago.
    this one fascinated me and still does . and I don’t know what happened or when . but I also know he doesn’t really either.

    OK so some pilgrims going to the highest places dies.. when?
    well that is debatable.

    now they say in the video that Nanda Devi is a goddess of fire and distruction . but it is also just a name for that plain old mountain range and one of the highest place on earth.

    now the bunch of pilgrims went to the highest places and died. why ?

    that is all we really know everything else is theory . and still is in my book.

    so let play with a theory or two or three.
    why they went to the lake , now that lake even being a lake before that event is even an assumption.
    which by the way is most likely an impact site if you didn’t notice it … check again.
    so they were singing songs about a Husband and fire and distruction to be with his wife Nanda devi who is one of the incarnations of Shiva 2nd favorite wife Parvati who is incarnation of ) and so on ). now Shiva is the God of fire and destruction those at that festival were singing about what most likely happened on the mountain Nanda devi who is one of Shiva main wives. why is she a main wife maybe because they had so much interaction with each other over the ages ?
    so the questions really becomes maybe something like
    1 were pilgrams there to see the impact site/ s ( how many site ) / or even the range was built by Shiva impact events as a home for his wife Nanada devi ..
    2 were they there to sacrifice on the highest place/ impact site and it hailed on them ?

    3 were they just worshipping in the highest places of Shiva and Nanda devi love nest , and a meteor/asteroid rained down on them?

    so is this story about one event, two events or three events.. I guarantee it is bigger than a hail storm 1200 years ago !

    sciences ideas and dating systems make less sense that Shiva does , because they do not know the laws of any of these types of things , I know they wish they did , but I know they don’t ! and I know they make it up stuff as they go because of what they think they see .
    Shiva was Nanda devi husband , the video talks about his or her home. He is also the god of divine vengeance and fire and destruction!

    why did the pilgrims go to the lake ?
    to see the impact site or were they there when it became an impact site ? but they would have went there to worship because it already had a identity with Shiva and his wife Nanda devi and that would imply that the range was created by Shiva by fire and destruction for Nanda devi’s home.
    with a little bit of research you can easily find out the Goddess Nanda Devi is not goddess of fire and destruction like the archaeologist told you in the video . he twisted the story to meet his research. I will bet on that .. so what is the real story behind why the pilgrims were even there that yet to be questioned much less told.

    I am still looking for the very real events of 2000, 2800 and 3200 and 4799 years ago.

  • chicken little

    well I have to oppologize I relistened to the tape again and the narrator does kind of say that
    Shiva is the God of destructions and fire.

    but never goes into why people were so afraid of Nanda devi. so my notes didn’t make sense.

    maybe they were so afraid. in awe of her because she required more purity and or humility than the pilgrims had anyway. and that is the reason the hail came.

    it is still just the tip of the real history of the area.

    so he didn’t twist the story

  • chicken little

    dang could they have gotten it anymore backwards.
    backwards why , because of their dating systems and their “faith” and “Belief” in the religion anti-religion very own Magic and POOF all of it’s proof !

  • chicken little
    Now there is a smart girl!
    she is going to find out why all those cultures that worship their ancestors did it on high places.. yep what a start , she is so smart !! you go girl!

  • chicken little

    how convenient it also existed 12000 years ago and aint there today !

    …… water water every where and not a drop to drink!

  • chicken little,0,3521236. story

    and yet no one found that the sea level dropped an amazing 1000 to 2000 feet 3200 or 2800 years ago .
    so some
    ” climate change” that made or makes every continent
    dry 3200 years ago . so maybe they got a horse pushing that cart ..

  • chicken little

    bronze age history … collapse info .

    and to think a proven bronze age woman. and no special scientifically magic or imaginations were needed to date her .
    but she is found above 1200 ft mark.. now isn’t it just too cool..
    Plato and Solon you both looking smarter all the time! Go eyewitnesses and all those who remember instead of make up history!

  • chicken little
    seems they have the sand issue backwards.
    but at least they are seeing larger issues that are not resolved which is good enough for now !

    because it sure could get real funny if Michigan and those sand dunes and Alberta, Saskatchewan, Montana and North Dakota on out past the lakes to the falls and maybe hudson bay what if they all share the exact same sand, now won’t that be funny ! ;P

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