Kerr Watch

Elapsed time since Richard Kerr failed to inform his Science readers of the confirmation of nanodiamonds at the YDB: 6 years, 2 months, and 1 day

TEDx: Graham Hancock on Lost Civilizations and the Younger Dryas Boundary Impact

  • Tom Holsinger

    Well done, thank you.

  • Steve Garcia

    I love it. This is both well presented and makes just the right points about our history. More and more and more, the evidence keeps indicating that our history was not ONE “Ascent of Man” but at least two.

    Hancock makes a good argument that the beginnings of agriculture (and domestication of animals) and other developments DID arise right at the time of the Younger Dryas’s ending. In the time constraints of a TEDTalk there is not much detail he can go into details, but the details do exist at the present time, at least in rudimentary form.

    The thing I am working on right now with one of you fills in some of the unknowns that Hancock can only so far speculate about.

    The bigger picture, knowledge-wise, is this: As new information has come in since about 1980 and the Alvarez’s K-T impact hypothesis, the more the overall picture jibes with what ALTERNATE researchers have said all along, and LESS like what the old fuddy duddies of science were telling us all in 1980 and 1990 and 2000. West and Schock, with their water erosion in the Sphynx enclosure walls were almost laughed out of town, because the rains have NOT come to that region in so long. But there is another aspect of that erosion and the time element. The erosion itself took place over much time. The date of the last heavy rainfalls at Giza is not the age of the Sphynx and the enclosure. Two factors to add into that are these: 1.) The Giza complex was designed and built by people with astonishing capabilities for stonework, and those who an BUILD should aslo be ones who can MAINTAIN. The evidence of the erosion also suggests a very long period of NEGLECT – DURING the time of the heavy rains at Giza. 2.) The Sphynx and the enclosure were buried right up to the neck for untold centuries. ALL early images of the Sphynx, back to the 1500s, show only the head and headdress. That state of affairs continued up until about 110 years ago when sand removal was begun. 3.) The body of the Sphynx, once exposed, was shown to be in horrible deterioration. Again, this shows that the time of exposure of the body was long. There will be those who will argue that the body is falling apart rapidly in the 110 years it has been exposed in modern times, and therefore nothing can be gleaned from that. I will disagree, because the causes now are magnified by the effects of pollution and tourism, which did not exist in the past – certainly not to any extent close to what the Sphynx is experiencing now.

    Hancock is on the right track, and he is signing onto the YDB hypothesis and spreading it to many, many more people than had hitherto known about it. This is a GOOD thing he is doing.

  • Steve Garcia

    Oops. I said that there are “Two factors,”, and then I listed three. I submitted this without correcting the two to three.

    The point of all that was to argue that the SPhynx was built LONG before the rains actually stopped in Giza.

    Similarly he made a point about Gobekli Tepe that I’ve been making here: That the architecture did not appear all of a sudden at that level. Based on OUR architectural development time span, it is clear that Gobekli Tepe had no less than 2,000 years of development preceding it, perhaps as much as 5,000 (the length of our civilization). Our architecture was not much better in 1800 than it was in 1,000, and in 1,000 it was not much better than in the year 0. And the architecture in the year 0 was not much better than it was in the year 2,000 BC. Thus, Gobekli Tepe’s architactural forerunners were from at least 14,000 years ago and and perhaps as much as 18,000 years ago.

    That was the middle of the Allerod, when the climate shown in the Greenland ice cores peaked at nearly the levels of NOW.

  • Noel Hartsell

    On the Sphinx –

    Remember the saying, “If the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail.”

    Robert Schoch, in “Forgotten Civilization”, relates a conversation with Egyptologist Mark Lehner on the age of the Sphinx. Lehner said, “You can’t really believe that the Sphinx is older than the Fourth Dynasty. You must know that is nonsense.” Then, Schoch said, “I proceeded “to answer in detail as he just stared at me with a blank look on his face, saying nothing. Then, as I was in mid-sentence, he simply turned around and walked away.” And later … Lehner ‘labeled my research, “pseudo-science.” He argued, “If the Sphinx was built by an earlier culture, where is the evidence of that civilization? Where are the pottery shards? People during that age were hunters and gatherers. They didn’t build cities.”‘

    Lehner was blind to any evidence other than what he “knew”. He could not wrap his mind around any other paradigm. To do so would risk having to admit that he was wrong, and render his beliefs as relics.

    On the question of ancient advanced civilizations –

    In “Fingerprints” and “Magicians”, Hancock looks for evidence of unknown advanced ancient civilizations. The questions are, How far back do they go? and, How advanced were they? What he found was strong evidence that ancient people had a sophisticated knowledge of astronomy, particularly of the precession of the earth’s axis. He found less strong evidence, mainly from passed down traditions, that people once had special abilities and technologies that we do not have today. The question then becomes, What did ancient people know that we don’t?

    Yet there is nothing to indicate that any pre-historic civilization progressed beyond the neolithic stage. I would expect more if Gobekli Tepe (or others) had been settled by survivors of of an advanced Atlantis, as Hancock supposes. So maybe tales of advanced civilizations are only myths.

    On the other hand, if any past civilization did advance beyond stone age technology, there might be little evidence of it today, or evidence that we would recognize, if it was much different from ours. Most of the building materials that we use are not nearly as durable over time as the megalithic monuments of the near ancient past. It has been estimated that if all people disappeared from the earth today, that in 10,000 years there would be no visible trace that a modern civilization had ever existed, though archaeological evidence would last much longer, if you looked in the right place. And if we had progressed further toward a totally digital society, as is the trend, then future archaeologists might never find evidence that we had a written language. Still, some materials would survive that would be markers for an advanced civilization. But as far as I know, no such markers from the past have ever been found.

    According to the genetic and paleontological record, man only started to leave Africa between 60,000 and 70,000 years ago, and that at about that time, due to some change in the environment, the human population likely dropped to fewer than 10,000. That doesn’t leave much time, or human potential, to progress from hunter gatherers to something much more advanced, which makes it look like Gebekli Tepe was the pinnacle of human achievement to its time.

    Still, we know very little about the origin of homo sapiens, or how long we have been around. Our modern civilization developed from the stone age in just a few thousand years, so we can’t say for sure that ours is the only one. There is a vast amount of time in which many things could be hidden from us, for now.

    The good work of Graham Hancock and others might lead to something some day, but only if we keep an open mind.

  • Steve Garcia

    Lehner, you have to know, is a sell out. The Association for Research and Enlightenment – the Edgar Cayce foundation – funded his archaeology degree. They are – in HIS terms – as pseudo-science as it gets, but he had no problem taking their money and then turning into a total establishment guy.

    For the last few decades Lehner wouldn’t accept anything that is not 100% Zahi Hawass approved. Lehner had his nose up Hawass’ butt for that entire time. Hawass, the joke of Egyptology, and Lehner, his water boy.

  • Steve Garcia

    The dates on Gobekli go back farther than the end of Atlantis. In addition, Hanckock rightly makes that argument about the Gobekli tech being quite developed, which means the pre-history of which it is part goes back probably to before the YDB.

    The term “pre-history” is a catch-all phrase, so saying it doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing to different people. In Hancocks’s (and my) pre-history is a civilization that had developed quite far. Does Gobekli qualify as pre-history? Or does it extend history and now only things before Gobekli are pre-history? Does pre-history only apply to establishment dates, such as the founding of Jericho?

    Who CHOOSES what is pre-history and what isn’t? Who draws that line?

    I think there is known history and unknown history. Hancock and other alternative researchers are willing to look into the unknown early periods. Lehner, for one, is too closed minded. If Egyptology was a science (in my mind it is historians), Lehner would be the weakest of the scientists, because his mind is closed. He asked Schoch, “Where are the artifacts”? Well, NOW those artifacts DO exist. What does Lehner had to say now?

    I am very happy that Hancock has gone down the Younger Dryas Impact road. It “spreads the word”, as it were, to a very large audience. That is a good thing. And it also connects alternate researchers and their audience to actual peer-reviewed science, which I HOPE solidifies the knowledge base of Hancock’s readership.

    Long, LONG ago I reada one of the early articles that talked about what would be left in 10,000 years. THat article argued that two and only two of our structures would still be around. One was the Washington Monument. For obvious reasons. The OTHER was the ST Louis Arch. Because its skin is stainless steel. I disagreed with the latter. I am from ST Louis, and I was in high school when it was being built. Its STRUCTURE is made of what is called “mild steel”, which is steel that rusts if not painted. I knew this about the arch then, and NOW I also disagree that the arch will last that long. There will be PARTS of it then, the shell, etc. But I am sure it will have collapsed long before 10,000 years. So that leaves the Washington Monument. But THAT is not the only stone building/structure that we have. I think many stone buildings will survive, at least in part.

    Good points about our technology being hidden in our digital storage methods. It certainly could make future arkies miss that we had written languages. With 99% of non-digital written items being on paper, THAT will also be gone. Very little is an a form that would last 10,000 years. This line of reasoning alone is sufficient to argue that we today are missing most of what they had in the megalithic sites. It does NOT help that the arkies keep telling us that those sites are only several hundred or a very few thousands of years old. Gobekli and its architecture look to have things in common with Gozel on Malta, and perhaps some similarities with the sites in Egypt and Sumeria. So, if Gobekli is 12,000 years old, that SHOULD allow arkies and alternate researchers to be open to Egypt and Sumeria and Tiahuanaco to be as old as Goberkli. Posnansky, based oin the alignments of structures, posited LONG ago that Tiahuanaco was 12,000 years old. Establishment arkies said he was nuts. That should be revisited, since the dating of Gobekli Tepe is that old, too.

  • The Washington Monument was badly damaged recently by a fivish Richter scale event more than one hundred miles away. So no more of it lasting ten thousand years than the St Louis Arch, except rubble and scrap, especially if picked over by succeeding cultures for valuable material resources. I would look to maybe Mt Rushmore and the roots of some of the large dams built in the western states. That is if an event or series of events such as are proposed to have occurred at the YDB and after come to pass. Oh, and a lasting radioactive mess from all the reactor cores and spent fuel pools. Maybe the reactor roots will remain.
    I am very much in agreement about Graham Hancock’s impact on mainstreaming the confirmtion of the YDB with the general populace and swaying the scientific establishment toward acceptance. From my studies of the YDB and ancient megalithic remains, my take is that what happened was far worse than anyone can really fathom. Truly devastating on a planetary scale.
    Thanks for the articles and the comments.

  • Noel Hartsell

    Steve & Popeyes –

    Hancock may have a greater influence on the next generation of archaeologists than on the current one. As often happens, the old guard must die out in order for new ideas to be accepted. Hopefully, YDB evidence will continue to emerge until it is strong enough to settle the issue well before then.

    Hancock thinks comet impacts occurred as book ends to the Younger Dryas. I haven’t seen any specific evidence of that, but something happened to end the YD in a very short time and cause a sudden sea level rise. Schoch favors a giant solar eruption as a better explanation than another impact event. There are at least two parts to the YD puzzle.

    People are waking up to what Clube and Napier have been saying for a long time, that comet-related impacts occur a lot more often than scientist have thought. We really live in a shooting gallery. Evidence seems to exist throughout history, only it has been ignored or misinterpreted. Two likely examples:

    Destruction at the end of the Bronze Age: Historians are unable to explain the widespread devastation by fire around the Mediterranean at the end of the 12th century BC. Some locations have layers of burnt rubble six feet thick that contain bricks and plaster that melted and began to run. The heat required could not have come just from burning wood. There is no evidence of earthquake, and in many cases no evidence of enemy attack. An unknown natural disaster is a possible explanation. (Source, “1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed”)

    The Chicago and Pestigo, Wisconsin fires of October 8, 1871. The fires were unexplained by fire officials. A Chicago fire chief said the fires and the intense heat were “unnatural”. Several Pestigo witnesses said the fire came from above. October 8 is just two days from the peak of the Southern Taurids. (Source: “The Apocalypse: Comets, Asteroids and Cyclical Catastrophes”)

  • Steve Garcia

    The southern Taurids come that early? Very interesting. I wonder how that happens that that stream is so far to one side to intercept the Earth 3-4 weeks earlier than the northern stream. So they are below AND to one side?

  • Noel Hartsell

    According to the Wikipedia article “Taurids”
    Southern Taurids: Sep 10 – Nov 20, peak: Oct 10
    Northern Taurids: Oct 20 – Dec 10, peak: Nov 12

  • Jonny McAneney

    Unfortunately wiki is incorrect regarding the peak of the southern taurids. The peak is around the 5th November. This is confirmed by many astronomy sources and text books. I think the 10th October comes from the International meteor oganisation but other meteor observation sites give 5th November. Peter Jenniskins book “Meteor Showers and their Parent Comets” also gives 5th Novemeber.

    I tried posting about this yesterday but my posts haven’t made it through.

    The Draconids peak on the 8th October though.

  • Noel Hartsell

    Jonny

    Thanks for the clarification. My information is only as good as my sources (since I am not a scientist), which, unfortunately, are sometimes lacking. Feedback is very helpful.

  • trent telenko

    This is somewhat related (AKA we know beans about history)

    It appears that pre-Roman agricultural trade networks in the UK were huge.

    See:

    Hi-tech scans reveal industrial-scale farming networks from the Bronze Age in the woodlands of the South Downs

    •Airborne laser scan looked for Roman road from Chichester to Brighton
    •Also revealed extensive farming network of a size that was unexpected
    •Experts say it forces archaeologists to rethink human history of Britain

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3687732/Hi-tech-scans-reveal-industrial-scale-farming-networks-Bronze-Age-woodlands-South-Downs.html

  • If one is to talk about ‘Civilisation’ there is one essential aspect that shouldn’t be forgotten. A civilisation, like an army, exists and progresses on its stomach. The essential element is its food source. In the old world that source was the cereals, and their development and hybridisation is a good indicator.

    No surprise that the oldest myth is really based on the cereals, mainly barley and corn(wheat). Their genetic development from wild grasses into staple crop tells a lot about the development of man. (That same myth can be found all over the old world and the near east, although today nearly unrecognisable).

  • Barry Weathersby