Kerr Watch

Elapsed time since Richard Kerr failed to inform his Science readers of the confirmation of nanodiamonds at the YDB: 6 years, 2 months, and 1 day

Upcoming Bern INQUA Conference packed with Younger Dryas Boundary studies

Abstracts for Session 60 “The enigmatic Younger Dryas climatic episode”

Oral Presentations

ID Title Presenter Talknbr. Invited
1666 Younger Dryas Onset Marked by Dramatic Environmental and Biotic Change James Kennett 1 x
835 The Younger-Dryas Cold reversal:Ice-Earth-Oceab Intercations During a Period of Rapid Climate Change Richard Peltier 2 x
366 Assessing the effectiveness of different freshwater drainage routes at triggering the Younger Dryas Alan Condron 3
2964 Reduced Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC) and Regional Climate Change During the Younger Dryas Jerry McManus 4 x
3138 Oceanic Variability in the Gulf of Alaska during the Younger Dryas Summer K. Praetorius 5
1514 Abrupt changes in runoff from North America during the Younger Dryas James Teller 6 x
262 Younger Dryas glaciation of Scandinavia – the type area for the Younger Dryas Jan Mangerud 7 x
1813 Unusual material in early Younger Dryas age sediments and their potential relevance to the YD Cosmic Impact Hypothesis Malcolm LeCompte 8 x
2641 Exceptional iridium concentrations found at the Allerød-Younger Dryas transition in sediments from Bodmin Moor in southwest England William Marshall 9
1556 Nanodiamonds and the Usselo layer Annelies van Hoesel 10
2768 Vegetation change and the Younger Dryas: a continental-scale perspective Matthew Peros 11 x
209 The Younger Dryas in the Neotropics: paleoecological evidence from Venezuela Encarni Montoya 12 x

Posters

ID Title Presenter
583 New paleoclimatic reconstruction for the Allerød and Young Dryas of the plain part of Ukraine (based on palynological data) Lyudmila Bezusko
997 Vegetation dynamics during Younger Dryas climatic episode (12600 – 11500 yr. cal. B.P.) in Northwest Lithuania Eugenija Rudnickaite
1177 Effective moisture during the late glacial to Holocene transition from mainland eastern Australia John Tibby
1181 The boundary phenomenon of the Pleistocene – Holocene in the Baikal Siberia (Russia) Natalia Berdnikova
1184 A review on the radiocarbon and absolute chronologies bracketing the Younger Dryas climatic event Edouard Bard
1294 Individual and community responses of diatoms to the Younger Dryas climatic reversal in a South Carpathian glacial lake Krisztina Buczkó
1378 North Atlantic reservoir ages linked to high Younger Dryas atmospheric radiocarbon concentrations William Austin
1447 The Bull Creek valley stream terraces, buried soils, and paleo-environment during the Younger Dryas in the Oklahoma Panhandle, USA Alexander Simms
1526 Soot as Evidence for Widespread Fires at the Younger Dryas Onset (YDB, 12.9 ka) James Kennett
1584 Human Population Decline across Parts of the Northern Hemisphere during the Younger Dryas Cooling Period James Kennett
1587 Eastward Drainage of Glacial Lake Agassiz: The Perspective from the Lake Superior Basin Steve M. Colman
1591 Nanodiamonds as Evidence for a Younger Dryas Cosmic Impact Event Allen West
1606 Shock-melt Evidence for a Cosmic Impact with Earth during the Younger Dryas at 12.9 ka Allen West
1619 Evidence for Widespread Biomass-Burning at the Younger Dryas Boundary at 12.9 ka Allen West
2667 Greater-than-present wet conditions from 14.6 to 10.2 cal ka yr BP in the southwestern Great Lakes area, North America Brandon Curry
2765 Evidence of Younger Dryas aridity in dune-paleosol successions in the Midwest of U.S.A. Hong Wang
2853 Pedogenic Climate Signals in the Great Plains (USA) during the Pleistocene-Holocene Transition (Bølling/Allerød – Boreal) William C Johnson
2875 The Allerød-Younger Dryas Transition in lake sediments from The Netherlands Wim Hoek
3116 Megafaunal Extinction at the Younger Dryas Onset in North America Douglas Kennett
3134 Carolina Bays: Younger Dryas Time Capsules Malcolm LeCompte
  • http://nia.ecsu.edu/ureomps2008/team-dryas/yd2008.pdf
    6 pages with color photos

    Younger Dryas Impact Study
    Mentor: Dr. Malcolm LeCompte
    MyAsia Reid (ECSU), Leroy Lucas (MVSU), Devina Hughes (MVSU)

    Abstract — The events precipitating the dramatic,
    millennial long climatic cooling known as the Younger
    Dryas, that occurred approximately 13,000 years ago
    remain a mystery. Recent evidence suggests an
    extraterrestrial impact on the Laurentide ice sheet may
    have provided the trigger for a massive influx of fresh
    glacial melt water theorized to have flooded the North
    Atlantic and shut down the Thermohaline circulation that
    moderates climate in the northern hemisphere. The
    apparent absence of an easily identified impact crater has
    focused the search for evidence of an impact on a search
    for extraterrestrial markers embedded in the Earth’s
    sedimentary record.

    Association of an impact with coincident reduction in the
    numbers of megafauna species and human population of
    North America has suggested a strategy for the search for
    evidence of the impact. If an impact is responsible for
    initiating the onset of the Younger Dryas, the ultimate
    disappearance of megafauna species and the decline in
    human population, then the evidence should lie at the
    sedimentary boundary (YDB) separating the Younger
    Dryas from the preceding Bolling-Allerod at a depth
    corresponding to 12,900 years before present.

    Some of these evidential markers (magnetic grains and
    spherules, charcoal, and glass-like carbon) were relatively
    easy to extract and identify while others (nano-diamonds
    and fullerenes) required great care, expensive
    instrumentation and considerable training. Fortunately,
    the vessels (carbon spherules) containing the more
    challenging markers were identified and extracted during
    the soil processing for magnetic spherules and charcoal.
    The research project also included an investigation of local
    paleo-lake depressions known to harbor impact markers
    and whose stratigraphy could have revealed a clearer
    understanding of the processes that shaped the coastal
    topography during the Younger Dryas. The research was
    carried out using a combination of Ground Penetrating
    RADAR (GPR) and sample coring to probe the subsurface
    deposits of selected depressions.

  • E.P. Grondine

    I think it likely that the Gulf of Alaska data will rather completely
    change the general understanding of the global climate change at the YD.

  • http://www.uu.nl/faculty/geosciences/EN/research/institutesandgroups/researchgroups/experimentalrockdeformation/Pages/SRSMaartjeHamersandAnnelies.aspx

    Public lectures & Debates

    The reliability of impact markers: Electron microscope analyses on shock quartz (MH) and experiments on the stability of nano-diamonds in carbon spherules (AvH)

    Solid Rock Seminar by Maartje Hamers and Annelies van Hoesel, PhD students at the Structural Geology Group.
    Abstract – Maartje Hamers

    In the last decades, impacts have been recognised as an important geological process.
    Especially since the hypothesis of an impact related mass extinction at the K-T boundary and the discovery of the Chicxulub crater in Mexico, most scientists have acknowledged the potentially devastating effect of a major impact on Earth.
    There has been speculation about the involvement of impacts in several other major extinction events, like at the Triassic-Jurassic boundary and the Permian-Triassic boundary, but so far no convincing impact evidence has been found.

    One of the most reliable impact markers is the occurrence of planar deformation features (PDFs) in quartz.
    They can be recognised as multiple sets of thin, very closely spaced sets of planar features that develop parallel to rational low index crystallographic planes.
    Using a light microscope it can be difficult to distinguish between PDFs and tectonic deformation lamellae.
    In many cases, transmission electron microscopy (TEM) observations are required to prove the shock origin of lamellar microstructures.
    Because TEM work can only be done on very small samples and is slow and costly, we are developing new scanning electron microscopy(SEM) methods to identify PDFs in quartz.
    We used a cathodoluminescence (CL) detector in the SEM to image both PDFs and tectonic lamellae.
    In general, PDFs can be distinguished from tectonic lamellae in these images.
    Furthermore, we use orientation contrast imaging and electron backscattered diffraction (EBSD) techniques to measure crystal and PDF orientations, which can be used to estimate the peak shock pressure during impact.

    Abstract – Annelies van Hoessel

    The onset of the Younger Dryas (12.9 ka ago) was marked by extremely rapid climate change, mega-faunal extinction, and changes in human culture in North America and Europe.
    The rapid climate change has been attributed to changes in ocean circulation induced by sudden fresh water discharges into the ocean.
    Recently, it has been proposed that this meltwater pulse was triggered by the destabilizing effect of an extraterrestrial impact or multiple airbursts over the North American ice sheet [Firestone et al., 2007].
    The strongest evidence comes from a distinctive carbon rich ‘black mat’ layer and consists of nano-diamonds associated with carbon spherules [Kennett et al., 2009].
    The origin of these nano-diamonds is however ambiguous as nano-diamond bearing carbon spherules have also been found in modern soils across Europe [Yang et al., 2008] and similar carbon spherules have been reported in samples from recent forest fires [Firestone et al., 2007].

    During my research the occurrence of the Younger Dryas ‘impact layer’ in several sedimentary records across the Netherlands and Europe will be investigated.
    I will look for peaks in markers as found in the North American impact layer – including magnetic grains and microspherules, charcoal, carbon spherules, glassy carbon and nano-diamonds – as well as generally accepted impact criteria like shocked quartz.
    Possible glassy carbon and carbon spherules have been found in the charcoal rich Usselo layer south of Eindhoven.
    The reliability of nano-diamonds in carbon spherules as impact marker will be investigated in two ways.
    Samples taken from modern wildfires will be investigated for the occurrence of carbon spherules and nano-diamonds.
    In the lab, exploratory heating experiments will be performed to determine the stability of the nano-diamonds.

    Start date and time: 12/2/2010 16:00
    End date and time: 12/2/2010 17:00
    Location: N112, Earth Science building

  • Episodic reductions in bottom-water currents since the last ice age
    Summer K. Praetorius, Jerry F. McManus, Delia W. Oppo & William B. Curry
    doi:10.1038/ngeo227
    Published online: 15 June 2008
    Full Text – Episodic reductions in bottom-water currents since the last ice age | PDF (521 KB) – fee
    Episodic reductions in bottom-water currents since the last ice age
    Subject Category: Palaeoclimate and palaeoceanography

    Letter
    Nature Geoscience 1, 449 – 452 (2008)
    Published online: 15 June 2008 doi:10.1038/ngeo227

    Subject Category: Palaeoclimate and palaeoceanography

    Summer K. Praetorius
    Jerry F. McManus
    Delia W. Oppo
    William B. Curry
    Episodic reductions in bottom-water currents since the last ice age

    Abstract

    Past changes in the freshwater balance of the surface North Atlantic Ocean are thought to have influenced the rate of deep-water formation, and consequently climate1, 2.
    Although water-mass proxies are generally consistent with an impact of freshwater input on meridional overturning circulation3, there has been little dynamic evidence to support this linkage.
    Here we present a 25,000 year record of variations in sediment grain size from south of Iceland, which indicates vigorous bottom-water currents during both the last glacial maximum and the Holocene period. Together with reconstructions of North Atlantic water-mass distribution, vigorous bottom currents suggest a shorter residence time of northern-source waters during the last glacial maximum, relative to the Holocene period.
    The most significant reductions in flow strength occur during periods that have been associated with freshening of the surface North Atlantic.
    The short-term deglacial oscillations in bottom current strength are closely coupled to changes in Greenland air temperature, with a minimum during the Younger Dryas cold reversal and a maximum at the time of rapid warming at the onset of the Holocene.
    Our results support a strong connection between ocean circulation and rapid climate change.

  • JOURNAL OF QUATERNARY SCIENCE (2011) 26(2) 207–218 ISSN 0267-8179.
    DOI: 10.1002/jqs.1445 18 pages free full text

    Vegetation changes in the Neotropical Gran Sabana
    (Venezuela) around the Younger Dryas chron
    ENCARNI MONTOYA, 1,2 * Encarni.Montoya@uab.cat
    VALENTI RULL, 1
    NATHAN D. STANSELL, 3
    BROXTON W. BIRD, 3
    SANDRA NOGUE´, 1,4
    TERESA VEGAS-VILARRU´ BIA, 5
    MARK B. ABBOTT, 6
    and WILMER A. DI´, AZ 7

    1 Palynology and Palaeoecology Lab, Botanical Institute of Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain
    2 Department of Animal Biology, Plant Biology and Ecology, Autonomous University of Barcelona, Campus Bellaterra, 08193 Barcelona, Spain
    3 Byrd Polar Research Center, The Ohio State University, Columbus, OH, USA
    4 Oxford Long Term Ecology Lab, Biodiversity Institute, Department of Zoology, South Parks Road, Oxford, UK
    5 Department of Ecology, University of Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain
    6 Department of Geology and Planetary Science, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    7 CIEG – UNEG, Puerto Ordaz, estado Bolivar, Venezuela

    Received 8 February 2010;
    Revised 27 July 2010;
    Accepted 28 July 2010

    ABSTRACT:
    The occurrence of the Younger Dryas cold reversal in northern South America midlands and lowlands remains controversial.
    We present a palaeoecological analysis of a Late Glacial lacustrine section from a midland lake (Lake Chonita, 4.6501 8N, 61.0157 8W, 884 m elevation) located in the Venezuelan Gran Sabana, based on physical and biological proxies.
    The sediments were mostly barren from 15.3 to 12.7 k cal a BP, probably due to poor preservation.
    A ligneous community with no clear modern analogues was dominant from 12.7 to 11.7 k cal a BP (Younger Dryas chronozone).
    At present, similar shrublands are situated around 200 m elevation above the lake, suggesting a cooling-driven downward shift in vegetation during that period.
    The interval from 11.7 to 10.6 k cal a BP is marked by a dramatic replacement of the shrubland by savannas and a conspicuous increase in fire incidence.
    The intensification of local and regional fires at this interval could have played a role in the vegetation shift.
    A change to wetter, and probably warmer, conditions is deduced after 11.7 k cal a BP, coinciding with the early Holocene warming.
    These results support the hypothesis of a mixed origin (climate and fire) of the Gran Sabana savannas, and highlight the climatic instability of the Neotropics during the Late Glacial.
    Copyright # 2011 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
    KEYWORDS: Fire; Late Glacial; Neotropics; vegetation change; Younger Dryas.

    Study area The Gran Sabana (GS) is a vast region of about 18 000 km 2 located in south-east Venezuela (4.6089–6.6331 8N, 61.0679–74.0478 8W, Fig. 1).
    It is part of an undulating erosion surface developed on the Precambrian Roraima quartzites and sandstones, and forms an altiplano slightly inclined to the south, ranging from about 750 to 1450 m elevation (Bricen˜o and Schubert, 1990; Huber, 1995a)….

    Materials and methods
    The study site ( 4.6501 8N, 61.0157 8W , 884 m elevation ) is located within a private farm called ‘Hato Divina Pastora’ near Santa Elena de Uaire´n, south of the GS region (Fig. 1).
    The annual precipitation in Santa Elena, at 910 m altitude, is about 1700 mm, with a weak dry season from December to March (Huber, 1995a).
    The study lake lies within a treeless savanna landscape, surrounded by scattered palms of Mauritia flexuosa forming small stands locally known as ‘morichales’.
    In the absence of a local name for the lake, it is here termed Lake Chonita….

    Conclusion

    The Neotropical, mid-altitude Lake Chonita sequence analysed here has been subdivided into three palaeoecological/palaeoclimatic intervals
    (CHO-I, CHO-II and CHO-III), which are coeval with the
    Northern Hemisphere OD-B/A, YD and EHW, respectively.
    During the OD-B/A, very dry conditions have been inferred, in good agreement with other widespread
    northern Neotropical records.

    A dry and probably cold phase was documented between 12.7 and 11.7 k cal a BP, coinciding with the Northern Hemisphere YD cold reversal.

    During this period, a shrubland with no modern analogues was the dominant vegetation in the catchment area.
    This shrubland is absent today and it has been proposed, as a working hypothesis, that it could have migrated northwards at slightly higher altitudes where a similar, but different, shrubland occurs today.
    Such displacement would imply an increase in averaged temperatures of 0.7–1.5 8C.
    At the end of the YD, the shrubland was replaced by a treeless savanna similar to that at present.
    This coincides with the onset of local fires, suggesting that they could have influenced the vegetation change.
    Therefore, both climate and fire seem to have induced the shrubland/savanna turnover.
    The following phase (after 11.7 k cal a BP) coincides with the quasi-global EHW and is characterized, in Lake Chonita, by the establishment of treeless savannas and a significant increase in water levels, suggesting wetter and warmer conditions than during the YD.
    The continuity of savannas despite the increase in humidity suggests that fire prevented shrubland recovery, thus favouring savanna expansion. The manifest fire increase after 11.7 k cal a BP could have been related to climatic change or early Holocene human occupation of the region, or both.
    This supports the hypothesis of a mixed origin of the GS savannas, due to both climate and fire, and the important role of fire in their further persistence.
    This record is unique for northern South America midlands and lowlands.

    The analysis of other sequences of similar age is in progress to verify the local or regional extent of the documented trends.

  • Hermann Burchard

    @Rich:

    Annelies van Hoessel,
    The origin of these nano-diamonds is however ambiguous as nano-diamond bearing carbon spherules have also been found in modern soils across Europe [Yang et al., 2008] [. . . ]

    That would not be surprising as cometary fragments (mainly Taurid debris stream) have been impacting Earth frequently since late pleistocene times. One of the main indicators are numerous climate downturns insufficiently accounted for by other (volcanic) causes.

  • I like verifying for myself that highly competent, courteous experts are doing real science on many aspects of the complex science of Holocene impacts.

    If we all maintain high levels of courtesy and respect, more of these experts will join our discussions.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hi Rich –

    As I told you before, sadly the discussions are private now, with the public discussions at the Tusk separate.

    There were too many people peeing in the pool.

    Getting “real” impact science done by “competent and courteous” “experts” as rapidly as is necessary is going to require NASA Administrator Bolden firing Ed Weiler.

    As far as Mr. Cox goes, I hope that some of his features do turn out to be geoblemes. Perhaps the Holocene Impact Working Group may be able to help him.

    Why? Because Boslough’s impact model requires cometary impact velocities, which are much greater than asteroidal impact velocities.

  • Would velocity in this instance be part of the equation in which the energy imparted by an impact is the result of mass x velocity? Would larger mass, even if not imparting energy in a single impact but instead as a more distributed input help to balance the expected energy input needed to cause the destabilization of the climate by impact at the YD?
    I am always intrigued by the images and theories at craterhunter, cosmopier, and dragonstorm. While cosmopier theorizes a 30k years in the past impact for the carolina bay structures the other impact sites here are pretty much interested in a YD era impact scenario.

    THX

  • http://fireballs-meteorites.blogspot.com/2011/05/pig-in-poke-and-scars-of-wayward-comet.html

    Fireballs and Meteorites – SOTT.NET
    Watching the skies…
    02 MAY 2011

    A Pig in a Poke and the scars of a Wayward Comet
    Thu, 28 Apr 2011 06:46 CDT

    Dennis Cox
    Sott.net

    Comment: With all of the data we’ve gathered here on SOTT over the past several years showing an increase in fireball and meteor sightings, we believe that studying impact events and understanding the fallout from such events is a pursuit of supreme importance for all of humanity. While it may not be the most comforting thought to know that we live at the center of a cosmic turkey shoot, having knowledge of what may befall us at any time is better than having none at all. Knowledge, once applied, can ultimately protect, but having knowledge first is key. And mainstream geologists — who’ve instead chosen to bury their heads in the sand — have done little in terms of helping humanity understand or prepare for such disasters.

    We recently featured the article A Different Kind of Catastrophe – Something Wicked This Way Comes by Dennis Cox where he lays out the evidence for impacts that don’t conform to the usual crater formations. The following is part of an exchange we had with Dennis on this topic of mutual interest, and the problem of malfeasance in the Earth sciences towards catastrophic events. The interested reader may want to follow up on the suggestion offered at the bottom…. [ more ]

  • http://fireballs-meteorites.blogspot.com/2011/05/pig-in-poke-and-scars-of-wayward-comet.html

    Fireballs and Meteorites – SOTT.NET
    Watching the skies…
    02 MAY 2011

    A Pig in a Poke and the scars of a Wayward Comet
    Thu, 28 Apr 2011 06:46 CDT

    Dennis Cox
    Sott.net

    …I’ve often been told that to really flesh my theories of the planetary scarring of a geo-ablative airburst event, and cluster impact events, I really need to get some field work done. Heck those folks are preaching to the choir. But to tell you the truth, I’m as poor as a church mouse. And the funding for all the field work has been so far out of my reach that I haven’t really allowed myself to dwell on it much… Too depressing. Sometimes I wish I could meet a semi retired someone with a big RV, some time on his hands, and a desire to see some of the damnedest terrains on this continent that they don’t tell you about on the maps, or travel brochures. And maybe even carve out a place in the history books. Heck, if someone’s going to tour the country anyway, why not make it count for something?

    But to do a cheap round robin trip to a few of the main regions I’m studying would entail a road trip of a little over 5000 miles. At a conservative average cost of $1.50 a mile, transportation logistics, and fuel costs, would be in the neighborhood of $7,500.

    Extra instrumentation, such as portable GPS, ruggedized, laptops and good cameras to document every thing would be critical. A portable satellite dish to allow communication from remote campsites would be also be helpful. And a portable XRF analyzer would be almost priceless. Also helpful to study some of the small craters in west Texas, and New Mexico, would be a portable ground penetrating radar unit. Although the trip could still be a success without one. That trip for two, with portable electronics included would run somewhere between $10,000, and $15,000.

    The trip would go to some of the craters, and airburst scars, in New Mexico, and locations southwest, and west Texas, then to swing north up into northern Minnesota to get specimens from the some of hydrothermal burns where the LIS got hit. Especially some of the black splash of melt near Upper Red Lake. From there we go to Southwestern Montana to get specimens from some of the oval craters in the Rock Rock River Valley. On the way, we could visit a couple of amazing places in Wyoming I haven’t mentioned online yet. And then down through Northern Nevada, to get specimens from the oblique craters in a dry lake there.

    The ideal scenario would be to use the business plan of doing the road trip as a documentary. And take a good film crew along. As a film production, overhead costs could easily triple. But the locations, and terrains are interesting enough to make an exceptional documentary film. Even if detailed analysis of specimens were to fail to produce a single ET signature.

    One way it’s money spent on doing good science in the field. The other way it’s money invested in the entertainment value of doing good science in the field. But either way the focus needs to be on doing good science, no matter what. And no matter the outcome the resulting data might describe. So that even if the field data disagrees with me, and my theories of airburst geomorphology, we still end up with a documentary film that can provide a return on money invested for field work….

  • E.P. Grondine

    Thanks for the note from Morrison, Dennis – please send me the rest of your correspondence concerning me, so I can share it as well.

    E.P.

    PS – Rich, while we appreciate your earlier extracts on earlier research by the INQUA presenters, this post is not about Dennis’s problems in obtaining funding to continue his research on his suspected geoblemes.

    As I’ve told you before, the only solution for the lack of money for field impact studies is going to be for Administrator Bolden to fire Ed Weiler.

    I suggest that Dennsi try to contact members of the Holocene Impact Working Group, or geologists working in the regions of his suspected geoblemes.

    Other than that, given that impact research is difficult enough, I would appreciate Dennis simply getting out of the way of my own research.

  • Personally, I am in complete agreement with David Morrison that you are not a reliable researcher, and should simply be ignored.

    My own views on the geo-morphology of ablative airburst phenomena will be proven, or disproven, irregardless of your opinions. Your negative opinions are impertinent, and of no consequence to me, or my own geological research. So I make no mention of you, or your work anywhere on my blog.

    perhaps you would be so kind as to explain how it is that you think I am standing in your way?

  • Paul Repstock

    Hi Popeye;
    You are on the right track. Velocity will make a huge difference to impact energies. One thing I’ve never heard anyone discuss is the effect of the orientation to the earth’s rotation, of the incoming object. The air you are standing in is sometimes moving at the speed of a rifle bullet compared to other objects in the plane of the eliptic. Sometimes towards those objects, sometimes away from them. The upper atmosphere is moving many times faster. This may not be a huge component in calculating meteor paths, but should be considered.

  • Helo for all

    Yes, certainly speed, gravity, the Earth’s rotation, the direct or retrograde motion of bodies in their orbits, the meteoroid density, fragmentation (or not) of the fireball, the angle of fall, the geology of the impact site, the local time, among other factors, may be important for understand the formation of elliptical craters.
    http://sites.google.com/site/cosmopier/impact-craters/palaeolagoon-geometry

    regards
    pierson

  • Paul Repstock

    Thanks Pierson. Nice site. A bit ago I happened to be trying to identify a location in Southern Algeria theorized by Wells as the site of Atlantis?? Interesting idea, but perhaps a bit over justified.

    However, looking around that area, I found a lot of apparent small craters and ?paleo lagoons? It makes sense that arid climates preserve these small features better.

  • E.P. Grondine

    “Inpertenant”?

    All that you have to do Dennis, is demonstrate that any of your possible geoblemes is a geobleme, and provide a date for its formation.

    All that Morrison has to do is establish a reliable cratering history for Mars, which will lead him to Clube and Napier’s cometary impact model.

    Why don’t you try “arrogant”, as in “hardened”?

    “Unreliable”?

    I do data recovery as best I can. If the numbers that result differ from theoretical models, then the models are likely wrong.

    This started off as a post on INQUA, and has rapidly turned to eleptical impact processes again.

    While you could have been of help in discovering which of the western glacial lakes the Assiniboine were at at the YD, you were a hinderance instead.

    Do you understand that the reason your own hypotheses have recieved no money for followup is due to Morrison’s low estimates for the rate of cometary impact, or is your skull really that thick?

    Personally, I go with option 2.

  • chicken little

    ‘While you could have been of help in discovering which of the western glacial lakes the Assiniboine were at at the YD, you were a hinderance instead. perspective dude..
    “IRRELEVANT QUESTION YET AGAIN and no one will ever learn a dang thing if they try and answer it.
    a more relevant question would be phrased more like ” where in the seas , is the tiniest bits of land they were on/in when “the turtle” maybe “emerged” from the waters after it took it’s swim , it is all in the perspective , well kind of/sort of as it emerged like a turtle comes out of the water , that could only be imagined by them as they didn’t have every fact to see everything which was going on . answer that and maybe someone will learn a thing or two.

    well that is for one event anyway .

  • chicken little

    rotf
    I mean really looking for a lake in a ocean is about as irrelevant a persecute as anything can be. rotf

  • E.P. Grondine

    George, contact me privately as soon as possible, please.

    CL –

    There were no “allegewi”. “Allegheny” is “pretty river” (belle riviere) from Alle+gheny.
    As far as the Gret Turtle goes, CL…

    I’ve made love to every kind of animal,
    under the sun,
    Tell you bout
    my favorite one…

    It’s the swan,
    My favorite animal’s the swan.

    Well the swan is an animal
    related to the duck
    maybe that’s why
    they like to …dance

    I say the swan
    My favorite animal’s the swan..

    I like to get down to the down
    and clear on through the down
    clean down to the quack…

    You know I like them in the altogether
    without a feather on
    My favorite animal the swan…
    My favorite animal’s the swan…

    CL, have I introduced you to my friend the Colonel yet?

  • E.P. Grondine

    CL, in my perspective, dude, rotf = rolling on the flour, with 11 herbs and spices

  • HI Paul

    These elliptical structures are common throughout the world. In some places they are quite obvious. In wetlands, on the estuary, or on volcanic terrain, for example they are difficult to identify.

    In Angola there are elliptic ponds, on the capital Luanda and at 60km south they look have the same shape and are aligned.

    http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&ll=-8.965412,13.37285&spn=0.012781,0.019205&t=h&z=16

    http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&ll=-9.519158,13.635063&spn=0.204173,0.307274&t=h&z=12

    They have a good outlook for the meteoritic hypothesis.

    Please could you send a link to where the structures you have identified in Algeria?

    regards
    pierson

  • chicken little

    “Whole Indian nations have melted away like snowballs in the sun before the white man’s advance. They leave scarcely a name of our people except those wrongly recorded by their destroyers. ”
    Like what has been recorded as
    Alleg and Illi !

    “I’ve made love to every kind of animal” now don’t that just make your momma proud!
    hey have you tried piraña yet?
    oH yes, Alleg and Mengwi here and in old world say howdy to you!

  • E.P. Grondine

    CL –

    Once again, and for the last time, “allegewi” was an imaginary creation of a European colonist.
    The Giants own name for themselves was “Andaste”.

    This crap is promoted by certain New Age cultists.
    They are spiritual thieves, and you are one of their victims, which explains your persistence.
    You need to read “Combatting Cult Mind Control” by Steve Hassan.
    In any case, the Tusk is is not the place for you to promote their crap.

    “Mengwi” is the Lenape word for anyone not Lenape.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Dennis, Rich –

    As I’ve told you repeatedly, I have no problem with the tangential impacts of comet fraqments or small asteroids.

    The satellite tv channels usually rely on FREE talking heads.

    If you want the help of anyone in the Holocene Impact Working Group, you need to adjust your attitudes and behavior.

    If you notice, Pierson’s approach is working quite well.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Here ya go, Dennis, Rich:

    Meteor Crater Field Camp

    http://www.lpi. usra.edu/ nlsi/mcFieldCamp /?view=program

    Field Training and Research Program at Meteor Crater
    Program Description

    2011 Fall Session
    Sunday, September 25, 2011 – Saturday, October 1, 2011

    The Field Training and Research Program at Meteor Crater is a week long
    field class and research project based at Barringer Meteorite Crater,
    Arizona , more popularly known as Meteor
    Crater. The goal of the field camp will be to introduce students to
    impact cratering processes and provide an opportunity to assist with a
    research project at the crater. Skills developed during field camp
    should better prepare students for their own thesis studies in impact
    cratered terrains, whether they be on Earth, the Moon, Mars, or some
    other solar system planetary surface. This field camp is being organized
    under the auspices of the NASA Lunar Science Institute
    , which is designed, in part, to
    train a new generation of explorers for the Moon and beyond.

    Students are responsible for transportation to Flagstaff, AZ.
    Transportation will be provided from Flagstaff to Meteor Crater RV Park
    (the team’s campsite). Students should plan to arrive on Saturday,
    September 24, 2011 and depart on Sunday, October 2, 2011. Additional
    logistical details will be provided to selected participants.

    This student opportunity is made possible with the generous assistance
    of the Barringer Crater Company and Meteor Crater Enterprises
    .

  • It is easy in a few hours to locate pertinent features to the N of Campbell Mountain, studied by Dennis Cox, a few miles E of his house in Fresno, CA.

    Maybe some of us can visit for a weekend and drive around, as many intriguing sites can be found by roads.

    36.69571 -119.421324 .534 km el top,
    Campbell Mountain in SE Fresno, CA,
    35 sec tour circles around it.

    Tours now exist for many similar mountains to the north.

    36.73598 -119.407920 .643 km el top,
    Jesse Morrow Mountain,
    35 sec aerial tour around it.

    36.800415 -119.359121 .865 km el top,
    Tivy Mountain,
    aerial tour.

    36.862713 -119.399460 .728 km el top,
    Red Mountain,
    aerial tour.

    36.859839 -119.39941 .622 km el,
    unusual hard dark mineral ridge pattern on side W side of Red Mountain — very like a hierglyphic…

    36.873853 -119.379766 .291 km el pond, .09 km wide,
    S rim of crater 1.35 km wide NEE,
    about 1.5 km E of Red Mountain.

    36.877794 -119.374608 .301 km el pond,
    .200X.127 km,
    on E end of 1.35 km crater about 2.5 km E of Red Mountain,
    E of 29094 E Trimmer Springs Rd
    Tollhouse, CA 93667,
    N of Hughes Creek Cemetary,
    NW of Pine Flat Dam and Lake.

    36.842769 -119.365636 .357 km el top,
    roads for house sites.

    36.855224 -119.36606 .334 km el top,
    rough road to top.

    36.883171 -119.430696 .677 km el top,
    Wildcat Mountain,
    aerial tour includes two small ponds to SE and large bare blast area to NE.

    36.879649 -119.439756 .624 km el top,
    NS ridge W of Wildcat Mountain.

    36.875091 -119.447295 .302 km el,
    .6 km size impact crater with .1 km small pond and .2 km pit,
    houses,
    W of Wildcat Mountain.

    36.838164 -119.424297 .302 km el,
    .02 km size dark impact blob on N slope.

    Dennis Cox reports YDB ice comet fragment airburst melt rocks now in labs
    for expert study: cosmictusk.blog: Rich Murray 2010.10.08
    http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_10_01_archive.htm
    Friday, October 8, 2010
    [ at end of each long page, click on Older Posts ]
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/72
    [you may have to Copy and Paste URLs into your browser]

    Dennis Cox blog, plain text, with images of samples of magnetic black glaze
    on melt rocks from 13 Ka ice comet fragment extreme plasma storm geoablation
    in Fresno, California: Rich Murray 2010.07.02
    http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_07_01_archive.htm
    Friday, July 2, 2010
    [ at end of each long page, click on Older Posts ]
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/53
    [you may have to Copy and Paste URLs into your browser]

    Dennis Cox, amateur extraordinaire, with 6 views given via Google Earth
    by Rich Murray of 360 m high mountain E of Fresno, CA, with uphill
    and then downhill ejecta melt flows — informative book with 92 color
    images: 2010.03.25
    http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_03_01_archive.htm
    Thursday, March 25, 2010
    [ at end of each long page, click on Older Posts ]
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/45

  • Hermann Burchard

    Middlesboro meteorite crater: Part of the Cumberland Gap, this crater is listed in Wikipedia. It is very evident on the Google terrain map, as are other meteorite craters. No date of origin is given, but is stated as < 300 M yrs here:
    http://www.passc.net/EarthImpactDatabase/middlesboro.html

  • George Howard

    You know, newspapers don’t print 50% of letters (or something like that). I always wanted to be a newspaper publisher…

  • George Howard

    Taking nominations for a post…

  • Hermann Burchard

    The comment on the Middlesboro meteorite crater (6 km) was to see if any of the experts reading the Tusk would know more about the date.

    I thought it odd that such a prominent impact feature has not been dated. From the Google terrain map, it appears to be remarkable well preserved, an exactly circular bowl just West of the first Appalachian crest. The stated upper bound of 300 M yrs would have preceded the N Atlantic ocean opening (~225 M yrs) and seems a bit old.

    Might have been best to put my question in the original post.

  • E.P. Grondine

    Hermann, George.

    Or myself, a very neutral and unbiased researcher with many years of experience, incluindg several years of experience dealing with the insane.

  • HI Paul

    These elliptical structures are common throughout the world. In some places they are quite obvious. In wetlands, on the estuary, or on volcanic terrain, for example they are difficult to identify.

    In Angola there are elliptic ponds, on the capital Luanda and at 60km south they look have the same shape and are aligned.

    http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&ll=-8.965412,13.37285&spn=0.012781,0.019205&t=h&z=16

    http://maps.google.com.br/maps?hl=pt-BR&ll=-9.519158,13.635063&spn=0.204173,0.307274&t=h&z=12

    They have a good outlook for the meteoritic hypothesis.

    Please could you send a link to where the structures you have identified in Algeria?

    regards
    pierson

  • https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=5d6b9f6c30c6fe9f&sc=photos&id=5D6B9F6C30C6FE9F%211456

    Burnt Rocks

    10 unique images of large rocks on S and W sides of mountains E of Fresno, CA by Dennis Cox that are cracked and coated with hard, shiny black glaze…

    https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=5d6b9f6c30c6fe9f&sc=photos&id=5D6B9F6C30C6FE9F%211348
    19 images of Fresno mountains

    http://craterhunter.wordpress.com/the-planetary-scaring-of-the-younger-dryas-impact-event/california-melt/

    pertinent features near Campbell Mountain, studied by Dennis Cox, by
    his house in Fresno, CA: Rich Murray 2011.06.27
    http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2011_06_01_archive.htm
    Monday, June 27, 2011
    [at end of each long page, click on Older Posts]
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/87
    [you may have to Copy and Paste URLs into your browser]

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